Channan Kata

Hello,

I am looking for information on the Channan Kata, which was the Kata used to inspire the Pinan set,.

Red

http://www.karatethejapaneseway.com/usagi_press/channan/index.shtml

Thanks for the reply, I have the book by Dr Schmiesser, I have been looking for alternate sources to substantiate the forms shown in the book, I have a friendwho travels to Okinawa he has been checking, so far his Sensei there says it is not much done anymore,he is not sure who still does it, but that is atleast a good lead, alsowaiting for a man in Australia to send me the forms his org did/does eith written out or on tape.. any other suggestions will be gladly accepted : )

Red

ive been trying to see what this Channan kata looks like, mind makign a video mpeg and posting it ?

I would be glad to if I get a copy to convert, I do know that Dr Schmiesser has his Channan on Video but I havn't had the extra $ to get it yet. Maybe someone here has his Vid and can post the Katas? when I get my copy from Australia we can compare them!

b

Later this year I will be releasing a publication that explores the roots of pinan kata. This will be the conclusions of a ten year in-depth study of the forms, their, development by Itosu and evolution from the Chinamans style he modelled them upon.

The work also offers a refreshing theory upon the development of Shorin Ryu karate styles that has never before been documented.

In all the time I've been researching the forms I've never found a convincing or 'authentic' beyond doubt version of the channan kata. Speculation suggests their could be two forms though many believe it to be one.

It's possible that Chokki Motobu knew the form, at least it is stated that he recognised it from some of Itosu's students practicing Pinan.

There is a form practiced by Chosei Motobu (son of Chokki Motobu) named Shiraguma No Kata that might possibly be Channan though I suspect its another 'variant'. Pursuing this line of enquiry became tiresome and misleading.

Most likely the actual form Itosu learnt is now lost; Miyagi once expressed that this is a fate shared by many ‘old’ forms when masters found no suitable successors. Further to this many old forms were evolved like the Pinan were from Channan so making practice of the former version obsolete. At the heart of the matter what is really important is whether the original intentions, philosophies and strategies of the form are continued and in Pinan I believe they are. It is hoped that my work will shed light upon these and help others to enrich their own understanding of their art.

Wishing good health,

Joel

When you publish, how can I get a copy??

One of the harder things for me to get used to was that there seem to have been no actual "offical" version of any one kata.

By that I mean it seems that the "old masters" tailored kata to fit the student--much as they still do in China.
So each of the masters students would have "different" versions of the same kata.

I understand the reasoning and the logic behind it--just irks me that I can't really go and look up what the "uber" kata looked like.

I have to comapare and contrast the various versions practiced by each student-then compare.

Which to be honest is kinda fun.

Ive been researching pinan katas for quite some time. I was actually thinking of starting a karate class and just teaching the pinan style. Do you have a website ? I cant wait to get a mpeg of schem. channan kata.

I would also be very interested once this is published.
Sharon

This is a really excellent topic.

If I may I would like to throw in a few bullet points that don't really substantiate anything, but may be of interest to some.

First and foremost Joel, you are to be commended for such a study. I can't imagine the amount of effort you have exerted on behalf of your art. I too should very much want to obtain a copy of your manuscript upon publishing.

Your thoughts on Channan being "held" by Motobu Chosei are thoughts that have occured to me as well. Several conversations with Motobu Sensei(not my instructor, but I have had the priveledge of training with him periodically) have alluded to veiled implications that he and some seniors may practice what seems to be Channan or a derivative. Alas, I am not part of that circle.

Sanchin: I have known of a least one instructor who was schooled in Shuri-te, that based the entirety of his teachings upon Kata Kusanku. Being that many believe that the Pinan's are Kusanku deconstructed, this idea is not that far fetched.

Keep in mind that many old Okinawans beleived that kata such as Kusanku, Passai, and Naihanchi were complete fighting systems. This is my long winded way of saying that an entire curriculum based on Pinan's may be a good way to fight. Let us know how this turns out.

Page

Thank you all for your interest in my project.

With regards to publishing, there has been some interest from one of the larger houses but I'm very much the sort of person who likes to do things my own way. As a consequence I'm considering producing it as an e-book or limited print so as to keep the leash loose around my neck!

Either way I shall keep you all informed.

CXT,
With regards to trying to 'find' the earlier Channan (Chang'an) you need to rationalise as to what is important. Even if someone does claim to 'know' it who's to say that it was the original? or just another 'variant' of an even older form?

During the early stages of my research I shared the same frustration you do but then it occurred to me that what was important was whether the 'original' thought that inspired its creation hade been retained. This question led me to investigate the identity of the mysterious China man that taught Itosu the form and discover what 'his' influences were.

Today I now believe I have found convincing evidence to support my claim that karate, specifically that from the Tomari area, has been largely influenced by an obscure form of Chinese Boxing. This is why Tomari-te never developed into a specific style but retains more of a 'feeling' applied to technique.

Sanchin
I also believe that contrary to popular belief, Itosu's Pinan set was not a 'watered down' form of karate for the school yard but in fact the synthesis of his lifetime study of fighting arts. In all probability Pinan, was meant to be taught as a complete style. Something that those spouting the 'schoolboy karate' myth seem to conveniently over look is that karate had already been introduced to the Physical Education program several years before the Pinan were even structured.

BuDoc
Regarding the Motobu incident in which he is quoted as recognising the form but under a different name; could that be a clue that the form had not been changed that much from the original to be easily recognisable?

I was very interested to learn about your experiences with Chosei and advanced students perhaps studying a possible 'channan' related form. For a long time I've thought that although Itosu secured the forms future practice it was Chokki Motobu who perhaps taught its essence. Motobu karate (not Motobu-te) makes good use of two man kumite sets and in later years of his life his understanding of karate seemed to undergo a revamp of sorts. This I think could all be linked to Kosaku Matsumura being the only person to accept Chokki as a student; Kosaku himself was the recipient of the Chinamans secret scroll before returning home.

All this is covered in greater depth and analysis in my book "Long Peace". Whatever the Chinaman taught it must have left a lasting impression on those that studied with him.

Thank you all again for your interest, my apologies for slow responses but I don’t check here everyday.. (can become addictive I think)

Wishing good health,

Joel^R^

Stillwadowoman,

I noticed that you operate several clubs in the Essex area, I'm not sure how interested you may be but after ten years of researching the Pinan and its history I'm looking to devise a course to teach my findings. I live in East Sussex, but would offer your adult members a very affordable workshop that for me would be a good 'testing' ground to structure this course?

Most of my own students have only ever trained with me so it'd be good to meet 'outsiders'.

If interested let me know and I'll drop you an email.

Hi Joel,

I am based in east sussex myself, please feel free to contact me to discuss possible training/research etc etc. very inteested in the pinans true history and origins, I always believed the schoolboy development story,I love being wrong!

yours in karate