On Sanchin, Part III: The Physiological Impact(s) of Ibuki Breathing

Has anyone that actively practices the set Sanchin either experienced negative effects (such as light headedness, headaches) or researched the possible physiological impacts of hard Ibuki breathing?

Of those who've researched the practices of this set, what are your opinions of the safety of Sanchin?

When I used to practice it, it had the effect of sending me asleep, like a antihistamine drug.

After about 45 - 60 mins practice, slow, hard. soft, etc.

I At onetime had trouble breathing for 3 weeks,After doing sanchin about 90%. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/confused.gif[/IMG] BTW Its also a good Idea to know if your students family has a hisory of heart disease,Before teaching him/her the sanchin kata.

[This message has been edited by Isshinryukid4life (edited 03-08-2004).]

Not so much bad effects but when I participated in a Goju class where they were going through this, they all sounded like a bunch of ageing asthmatics.

Found it no use at all.

JohnL

When first learning the form, I was told to put full power in the tense and breathing. As a loyal follower, I naturally followed. After a while, midway into the form, I coughed up then spit up blood. Getting myself checked out by my doctor it was found that the intense strain from training in Sanchin so hard caused the ill effects. After much research and proper instruction, I now train the correct way with some good results in physique and power I may add. It was and eye opener to say the least. Also, I noticed that the masters who trained in this formed didn't live past what 50-60. Is it possible that this form shortens the life in exchange for the use of the inner power? Just a thought.

While I'm no longer a believer in traditional Sanchin breathing (I only teach Sanchin with normal breathing and full speed), I firmly believe is very incorrect to say Sanchin caused its 'Masters' to die in their 50's and 60's.

The story is likely sniping from other Okinawan systems. Of course Okinawa has among the longest lived culture in the world, and even a few deaths leads to gossip, unsupported gossip. Some of the individuals involved suffered the deprivation of WWII on the island and it is just as likely that was a cause of their shortend life span.

Yes some instructors on Okinawa doing Sanchin died in their 50's and 60's. But there are also Okinawan instructors doing Sanchin who lived into their 80's and 90's.

Can one take a few examples of anything and derive 'PROOF' from such? That is rather unreasonable.

I have seen no 'scientific' analysis of the detriments of Sanchin training. My own choice is I see no scientific analysis of its merits either.

Having a Surgeon among my students, one with a strong Goju background, too, I've become very careful about trying to explain the medical implications of karate.

Essentially training does not give one any qualifications to explain what happens medically speaking.

Pleasantly,

Victor Smith
Bushi No Te Isshinryu

Here's an old dude doing sanchin.
http://www.wonder-okinawa.jp/023/eng/011/001/index.html

Pretty nifty.

There are and were some Okinawan Shinshii who did Sanchin and lived to a ripe old age. Those who practiced the unnatural Ibuki method usually died young. Usually not always.

Forced exhalation, where the glottis is constricted while air is forcefully and slowly expelled from the lungs can definitely lead to long-term health problems. Obvious are strokes at a later age, when plaque build-up in the vessels is higher, and the chance that intravascular "debris" will be dislodged and become stuck at some juncture in the brain, leading to a CVA or a TIA.

Conversely, I don't know how many Naha Te practitioners do it this way, but to have audible and forceful respiration, tensing your hara (tanden) and allowing for a slower exhalation, without the pressure of a forced and constricted inhalation or exhalation, and to practice on tensing when struck (at the begining of breathing-"spitting"), rather than throughout the entire drawn-out exhalation, then this method may not be so detrimental in the long run.

Folks at risk of aneurysms (weak arterial walls), may eventually suffer from a ruptured cerebral aneurysm, if they strain and engorge the vessels of their neck and head too much, which would not be good . You don't know if you're one of those people. It's best to be smart and moderate in your training methods and intensity.

To practice Sanchin, with good, safe Shime and more natural breathing would probably be best in the long run. Karate seem to provide its smarter and more cautious practitioners with a safer AND longer life (it's not only about fighting). That is, if they understand the middlepath. All Okinawan karate is based on this philosophy after all, or at least purports to be. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

[This message has been edited by Dr. Krunkenstein (edited 03-30-2004).]

Yay! Thanks, Dr. K!

In an interview with Grand Master Eizo Shimabukuro
by Stephen Rittersporn
regarding Sanchin:

Sensei, could you explain why we shouldn’t practice Sanchin with 100% muscular tension?

"Hai, Sanchin should be practiced at 60% muscular tension. Sanchin is very good for the young. It is less good as one grows older. The Sanchin Kata is very hard on the internal organs as you age. Many of the Goju masters, including Master Miyagi himself didn’t live to a great age. I believe this was the result of Sanchin training. As one grows older, ones body and ones power must grow softer as the understanding of karate becomes greater."

web site: http://www.inch.com/~sritter/ezoint.html

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Aku-Do Bushi:
In an interview with Grand Master Eizo Shimabukuro
by Stephen Rittersporn
regarding Sanchin:

Sensei, could you explain why we shouldn’t practice Sanchin with 100% muscular tension?

"Hai, Sanchin should be practiced at 60% muscular tension. Sanchin is very good for the young. It is less good as one grows older. The Sanchin Kata is very hard on the internal organs as you age. Many of the Goju masters, including Master Miyagi himself didn’t live to a great age. I believe this was the result of Sanchin training. As one grows older, ones body and ones power must grow softer as the understanding of karate becomes greater."

web site: http://www.inch.com/~sritter/ezoint.html [/QUOTE] Ive read that article before,& I certainly did'nt learn anything from it.But I Just wonder if there is any evidence of the great masters of long ago, sufferring from heart disease or asthma? [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/confused.gif[/IMG]



[This message has been edited by Isshinryukid4life (edited 04-02-2004).]