Mabuni on Kata and Directions

Hello all,

I had translated this passage some time back, and thought I would post here for discussion.

J.S.
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I would like to offer the following partial translation of a chapter on the bunkai of Pinan Nidan in the 1938 "Kobo Kenpo Karatedo Nyumon" by Mabuni Kenwa and Nakasone Genwa. This particular passage is found on pp. 139-140, and deals with directions in kata.

Although this particular passage makes specific reference to the Pinan series, I propose that the principle can be applied to all other kata as well.
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Kata and Directions:

The meaning of the the directions in kata is not well understood, and frequently mistakes are made in the interpretation of kata techniques. In extreme cases, it is often eard that "this kata moves in 8 directions, so it is designed for fighting 8 different pponents" or some othewr such drivel. I would like to address this issue now.

Looking at the enbusen for Pinan Nidan, one can see that karate kata move in all different directions, forward and back, left and right. When interpreting kata, one must not get too caught up in these directions.

For example, do not fall into the trap of thinking that just because a kata begins to the left that the opponent is always attacking from the left. There are two ways of looking at this:

(1) The kata is defending against an attack from the left
(2) The kata is shifting to the left against a frontal attack

At first glance, both of these seem reasonable. However, looking at only number (1), the meaning of the kata becomes narrow, and the kata, which in reality must be able to be applied freely in any given situation, becomes awfully meager in its application.

Looking at a specific example, the 5 Pinan kata all start to the left, and then repeat the same movements to the right. Looking at
interpretation (1), the opponent must always be attacking from the left, and while fighting that opponent, another omes up from behind, so the defender turns to fight the new opponent. This type of interpretation is highly unreasonable.

Looking at interpretation number (2) however, the 5 Pinan show us that against an attack from the front, we can utilize tai-sabaki (body shifting) to evade to either the left or the right to put ourselves in the most advantageous position to defend ourselves.
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tr. Joe Swift, 1998

Hi,
I agree with most of the ideas held in the translation. It seems vey unlikely that ones opponent's will ever be dispatched in such a systematic fashion. However, I cannot grasp the idea of kata utilizing tai-sabki. Using Pinan Nidan as an example, the first two movements have the karate-ka "focusing" to the left side. If one was employing tai-sabaki in response to a frontal attack, wouldn't the focus be more towards the front?
Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Dear Sir,

[QUOTE]Originally posted by engr916:
Hi,
I agree with most of the ideas held in the translation. It seems vey unlikely that ones opponent's will ever be dispatched in such a systematic fashion. However, I cannot grasp the idea of kata utilizing tai-sabaki. Using Pinan Nidan as an example, the first two movements have the karate-ka "focusing" to the left side. If one was employing tai-sabaki in response to a frontal attack, wouldn't the focus be more towards the front?
Thanks in advance for your thoughts.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I understand where you are coming from, and I cannot presume to speak for Mabuni Kenwa, but I understand this passage to mean that:

If the bad guy attacks us from the front with, say, a shove, and we want to use the "gedan-barai" portion of Pinan Nidan to neutralize it.

I personally feel that if possible, then one should always go to the outside of an attack, to keep away from the opponent's ther hand :-D

So, keeping this in mind, let's say that this is an ideal situation, in hich we <i>can</i> do that.

If he shoves with <b>his</b> right hand, we want to "sabaki" to <b>our</b> left, and vice versa.

Oh, how hard it is to put into words, what could be easily shown in a 30 second demosntration. :-)

Thanks for listening,

Joe Swift
Kanazawa, Japan

Joe,
Bunkai of a kata will train someone to react as Mabuni says. You visualize the attack and respond with the neutraliztion and counter, irregardless of the direction you are facing.

Secondly, there are a lot of good reasons to go inside. Yes, you are potentially exposed to the other hand and appendages but if your counter is quick and fluid there are more less protected vital organs from the front than the side. Also, usually that is the last thing a person suspects.

My humble thoughts on the matter...

This is my favorite topic. I feel that kata has gotten a bad wrap and has unjustly been pushed to the backburner of training. I spent the first 17 years of my training locked into this "Kata is for everything but self-defense" mindset. For the last eight years kata has been my main area of study. In fact I have spent the last six years studying only two specific kata: Taikyoku Sho and Naihanchi Shodan.

I could not be happier with the results. I continue to get new information out of these kata. It is odd that Taikyoku Sho is the first kata that is taught in many systems. I used to think that this was so because of the simple nature of the movements. I now look at this kata in a completely different light. Taikyoku Sho is one of, if not the most destructive and deadly kata that I have ever learned.

Most people might take issue with this statment, and I understand why. However, if you look closely at the kata's first few motions you will see why I say this. My first assumption is that all moves no matter how small or what meanings have been typically applied to them are there for a self-defense reason. Lets look at one application:

Ready position: this thrusting out of the fists(some styles twist the left foot at the same time) has been interpreted by most as signaling that "I am ready to begin my kata". I interpret it a different way. Think of the attacker being in front and pushing or grabbing you. If you execute this "Ready Position" move you would strike him with the perfect angle and direction to attack both St-25 points(located 2" either side of the navel) causing him to double over. If the foot twist is used there is a possibility of a KO and the end of the fight. With the attacker's head somewhere between chest and belt level you simply execute the "down-block" or gedan-barai uke. Except that its not a block in this case, on the "Fold" movement the top hand grabs the hair back opposite side of the head(getting some Gall Bladder Points) and the lower hand gets the opposite side chin(around Stomach-4) now just perform the turn and the "Block". Twists the neck just fine, with a possible break caused by the pressure points releasing the neck muscles. The step and punch could be viewed as an extension to this move as continuing the neck twist for insurance.

And we teach this kata to white belts...

Respectfully,
Scott

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Brent Easton:
Joe,
Bunkai of a kata will train someone to react as Mabuni says. You visualize the attack and respond with the neutraliztion and counter, irregardless of the direction you are facing.

Secondly, there are a lot of good reasons to go inside. Yes, you are potentially exposed to the other hand and appendages but if your counter is quick and fluid there are more less protected vital organs from the front than the side. Also, usually that is the last thing a person suspects.

My humble thoughts on the matter...[/QUOTE]

True, there are good reasons for going to either the outside (defensive) or inside (offensive) which have already been mentioned. In a self-defense scenario, however, you may not have time to choose. (By self-defense, I mean a situation where your attacker is already close enough to attack without taking a step first. In such a situation, if you wait to recognize which hand or foot is coming at you, it may already be too late.)

Therefore it's important to develop initial movements that protect your body's vital targets regardless of the type of attack. Once the initial attack has been received without injury, the follow-up techniques can then be chosen depending on whether you're on the inside or outside.

--JA

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kempoman:
<quote snipped>
Ready position: this thrusting out of the fists(some styles twist the left foot at the same time) has been interpreted by most as signaling that "I am ready to begin my kata". I interpret it a different way. Think of the attacker being in front and pushing or grabbing you. If you execute this "Ready Position" move you would strike him with the perfect angle and direction to attack both St-25 points(located 2" either side of the navel) causing him to double over. If the foot twist is used there is a possibility of a KO and the end of the fight. With the attacker's head somewhere between chest and belt level you simply execute the "down-block" or gedan-barai uke. Except that its not a block in this case, on the "Fold" movement the top hand grabs the hair back opposite side of the head(getting some Gall Bladder Points) and the lower hand gets the opposite side chin(around Stomach-4) now just perform the turn and the "Block". Twists the neck just fine, with a possible break caused by the pressure points releasing the neck muscles. The step and punch could be viewed as an extension to this move as continuing the neck twist for insurance.[/QUOTE]

Scott:
Perhaps you've practiced the above sequence and have found a way to make it work. It seems to me, however, that the distancing would make it very awkward. For example, using the "ready position" to strike the opponent with both hands would likely result in your having your nose broken by his forehead when he doubles over.

It's possible to reverse-engineer all manner of destructive and deady techniques into any kata (and there are numerous karate "masters" making very good livings doing just that). While much of it is good in theory, most of it just doesn't hold up in practice. As Dennis Miller would say: Of course that's just my opinion; I could be wrong.

--JA

I've noticed that several styles use a downblock to the left as the first move of their first kata which also happens to be so for me. I had never thought about the head twist that Scott mentioned. Now that he mentions it, I can see it clearly. I came up with it being used against a grab. Let's say someone grabs your shirt then you fold for the block which happens to put your left hand in a position to grab their hand. By then doing the downblock motion, their hand is remove and twisted so that you can step through with your "punch" to either break the elbow or use an arm bar. Has anyone come up with anything else?

Hachiman

An very interesting posting. It is now obvious that what we commonly know as bunkai is indeed watered down rubbish. What I found most interesting in the text was the fact that Mabuni was being evasive. If you are going to tell someone what to look for, why not tell them the bunkai as explanation of this? It seems as if he was saying, "we're teeching you incorrectly but tough".
What I most want to know is, how many people know the real bunkai to kata now. For example, I have just started training in Small Circle Ju jitsu with Leon Jay in England. He teaches the Dillman method of Karate (as he calls it). Now I was discussing the opening move to Kushanku with one of the instructors and he gave me what they say is the bunkai. It works with the Wado Kushanku and the Shotokan Kanku Dai. But, if you look at a more original version of the kata, like Chatan Yara Kushanku, the explanation doesn't seem right. They say that the opening movement it a block then strike to an oponent attacking from the front. Perhaps so, but why stick out your bottom whilst doing this? It seems that mr Dillman is doing some reverse engineering on his kata and sensei Hohan Sokon may not have passed him as much as we think.

What say you?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kevinfreestone:
An very interesting posting. It is now obvious that what we commonly know as bunkai is indeed watered down rubbish. What I found most interesting in the text was the fact that Mabuni was being evasive. If you are going to tell someone what to look for, why not tell them the bunkai as explanation of this? It seems as if he was saying, "we're teeching you incorrectly but tough".
What I most want to know is, how many people know the real bunkai to kata now. For example, I have just started training in Small Circle Ju jitsu with Leon Jay in England. He teaches the Dillman method of Karate (as he calls it). Now I was discussing the opening move to Kushanku with one of the instructors and he gave me what they say is the bunkai. It works with the Wado Kushanku and the Shotokan Kanku Dai. But, if you look at a more original version of the kata, like Chatan Yara Kushanku, the explanation doesn't seem right. They say that the opening movement it a block then strike to an oponent attacking from the front. Perhaps so, but why stick out your bottom whilst doing this? It seems that mr Dillman is doing some reverse engineering on his kata and sensei Hohan Sokon may not have passed him as much as we think.

What say you? [/QUOTE]

As to Mabuni's evasiveness, I'm personally of the opinion that in order to truly learn something, you have to wrestle with it for awhile. Therefore, I'd being doing my students a disservice to tell them, "This move means this (whatever that may be)." I'd be teaching them something, but I'd be doubtful that they'd really learned anything. The best teachers (IMO) never give you a straight answer. Instead they give you guidance on how to figure it out for yourself (in other words, how to wrestle with it). Oyata sensei, for example will say, "This type of movement can be used for this kind of
technique," and he'll demonstrate several techniques all incorporating the same movement. It's the old "give a man a fish/teach a man to fish" idea. Mabuni is being evasive because he knows that if he says "it means this" you'll stop wrestling
with it, your knowledge will be finite, and you'll be no better equipped to figure out the next move that you don't yet understand. Instead of teaching you what one move means, he's trying to give you the means to analyze all movements on your own.

As to your comments about Mr. Dillman, I would agree. My teacher was stationed in Okinawa and training with Soken and helped Dillman arrange to bring Soken over for the famous Pittsburgh seminar. Unfortunately, Soken became homesick to the point of physical illness and cut his stay short after only a few days. It's hard to imagine that Soken passed more to Dillman in several days than he did to my teacher in several years. The same holds true for Dillman's relationship with Oyata. It's hard to imagine that Oyata passed more to Dillman in a few months time than he has to some of his senior students who've been with him for as long as 30 years.

This is not to say that there isn't value in what Dillman teaches, and I have to give him credit for figuring out a lot of what he teaches on his own. However, the idea that everything in kata involves pressure points is as simplistic in its own way as the idea that everything is merely punching and kicking. As a result, I find that much of what he and his instructors do is interesting in an academic sense but is impractical under real conditions.

--JA

PS Sticking the butt out in Kusanku - what does that do to your balance and what kind of movement does it facilitate?

It is important not to fall into the contemporary 'bunkai' traps, or using code sayings to ignore the reality of instruction and focus.

Among them are:

1. The Pinan kata are the most deadly, the very first techniques can break necks, etc.

The reality of the application potential of those techniques does exist, but it exists equally for all kata, and many of the older kata are far more complex in the tapestry of application potential.

Remember the Pinan kata really wern't developed to train karate ninja. They were developed to train secondary school students in physical exercise and following group instruction, to become better military candidates for service in the Japanese military.

Beginning application potential descriptions are mostly for teaching the student spatial awareness of their technique, to get them to move into the right space at the right time by having a mental example of what the technique could possibly be used for.

The Okinawan systems were not designed to turn out instant trained fighting men. In fact in most Okinawna systems applications were not taught until real depth of movement potential was developed.

2. Bunkai is not an all inclusive term for figuring out how to apply a technique.

Frankly Bunkai isn't an Okinawan term at all, and no Okinawan teaching the Okinawan Arts in Japan would have begun using the term. Its adoption into Okinawan arts is a relatively later day phenomena.

Forgetting terms from other languages, you have a movement, it has application potential inside, outside and while turning in multiple directions. A kata only touches on part of that movement potential inherent in any movement.

In addition, that movement potential has variant layers, ie chambering the low block high or low or not at all before delivery. Those variations likewise have different application potential.

Properly done, any application potential can work.

But then you have other layers to consider. A movement can be broken into sub components, too each of which can and does have differing application potentials.

Then you can take a kata movement and follow it with the next step, or the next kata segement and find the different application potential that siginfies, too.

Then you have the different energies being developed with the kata, and learning how to link those energies into the application potential to achieve increased results. [Ooops, that means you have to get better and better in kata performance to develop those energies...sorry if I burst some bubbles.]

And of course this study in application potential doesn't even touch the more advanced study where you pick and choose, mix and match those application potential between the different kata exercises to create infinite layers of response potential.

Of course if you stay with one kata, or with one small group of kata, you are limiting other layers of response.

Finally, skill, knowledge and judgement have to be merged with experience to know when and how to respond, even when pressed into conditions of extremis suddenly.

Now, taking some of that into consideration, I don't find the words of Mabuni Kenwa obscure. You have to begin somewhere, and most of the individuals purchasing those books were likely not karateka anyways. So he pointed a bit in a new direction. Its as he was taught (and Funakoshi Sensei did the same in his books too).

Victor Smith

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Victor Smith:
It is important not to fall into the contemporary 'bunkai' traps, or using code sayings to ignore the reality of instruction and focus.

<post snipped>

Victor Smith[/QUOTE]

Victor:

I've reread your post 3 times. Very well said! It really clarified for me much of my own thinking about kata. Domo arigato!

--JA

Victor said:

"Remember the Pinan kata really wern't developed to train karate ninja. They were developed to train secondary school students in physical exercise and following group instruction, to become better
military candidates for service in the Japanese military."

Hi Victor. I couldn't help picking up on this point. Once I would have agreed with that statement. But now I suspect that Itosu was one really clever guy and actually had more than one rationale in mind when he formulated these kata.

Yes, I'm sure he had one eye on the purely calisthenic and exercise aspect of kata training. I think he purposefully put together kata that could have a simple 'block/punch' explanation suitable for children. But I also think that the Pinan kata are so much more. I believe that Itosu intended them to be a self-contained self-defence system, rich in bunkai of varying levels of complexity and severity. Of course, I have no direct evidence to support this viewpoint, only anecdotal evidence in terms of the many practical and effective bunkai that people have worked out (or borrowed from other arts) for these kata. I teach some of my students Pinan Nidan first and find therein plenty of effective but simple(ish) responses to commonly occuring assaults. Sadly I think it was Itosu who was brilliant for encoding that information within the kata, rather than me being brilliant for finding things which were not intended by its creator:-(

Mike

Hi Mike,

I understand how you're ariving at your opinion regarding the Pinan Kata. But perhaps, and only perhaps, you're using too narrow a focus. Itosu didn't abandon the rest of the kata, and for the wealth of technique applications you can find with the Pinan, there is a considerably vaster wealth in the rest.

In part I base my analysis on the use of the movement flow of the kata as a weapon too, in addition to the techniques. Many of the 'classical' kata simply have a greater range of movement flow, too.

Now any technique properly exectued can handle any attack, but skill and depth in study allow more opportunities for a system too. The study of these arts isn't just for short term advantage, and the older kata provide fuel for lifetime work, and new opportunities.

I'm certainly glad you find the Pinan of such value. I'd only suggest you consider the rest.

As for Itosu's addition of karate to the secondary school curriculum, I believe its usage was consistant with basic military group instruction. It certainly made it's mark on Funakoshi (who did not study the Pinana from Itosu but reportedly Mabuni Kenwa) with their inclusion as the Heian kata in his developing arts (Shotokan).

Likewise, similar efforts were made by others (reference Nakasone's 1938 listing of the 10 basic kata), Nagamine Shoshin's creation of the Fugyiata Kata, Funakoshi's creation of the Takioyoku Kata and Miyagi's creation of the Geseki Kata.

I'm quite certain all of them were trying to address how to progress beginners into their studies with better effectiveness. Yet none of them advocated abandonening the 'classical kata' either.

Perhaps this offers further food for thought.

Victor Smith

Hi Victor

You said:

"The study of these arts isn't just for short term advantage, and the older kata provide fuel for lifetime work, and new opportunities."

Indeed, I couldn't agree more:-)

Also...

"I'm quite certain all of them were trying to address how to progress beginners into their studies with better effectiveness. Yet none of them advocated abandonening the 'classical kata' either."

Yes, I'm sure you're right. My hypothesis is that Itosu designed the Pinan's at least in part as an introduction - initially at a very basic level, but then later in the student's training (and perhaps only for some students) more realistic bunkai for the Pinan's would be explored (giving the student an effective, pragmatic self-defence system). Later still, the classical kata would be explored. Of course, this is all simply conjecture on my part, I can't prove it one way or the other.

Mike

I think many of these posts are bloody brilliant. Insightful, and if not, at least provoke thougt on differing opinions. Anyhooo, I think Kata is valuable in many ways. But teaching of techniques, and philosophy et al aside, It has not yet been mentioned that repetative excercsies lead to the developement of certain neuromuscular pathways. When a movement is practised time and time again, a certian broadening of the channels that carry nerve impulses occurs. This means the movement(s) are more easily and quickly executed, and perhaps most importantly, are executed in a very similar manner to the way they are drilled without conscious thought. Just a little idea. let me know what ya think.
Cameron.

[This message has been edited by Argonis (edited 08-11-2001).]

About 10 years ago I began to "clue " in on kata. It is like an encyclopedia, you can use the same chapter over and over again as you write different essays.
Mr. Swift and his translated article are right on the money. In Isshin Ryu Karate the first 3 kata all have a similar circular block, in each kata it is executed from a different angle.. take this as a lesson and make each technique you find in kata and try them from different stances, different directions, different movement.. sheesh.. and all i got is one life time to do all this.....

Thank you Mr. Smith....

Mike O'Leary
Abbotsford Isshin Ryu Karate
Abbotsford BC, Canada.
kakure dojo.

interesting topic. revived if anyone would like to add to it...

Re the Pinan,

Personally I think they represent the 'old' shaolin Long Fist boxing system that forms part of origional shorin ryu (pre 1900 ish) , however 'technically' removed they are from the origional (Channan?).

With this in mind I think they deliver a base response to the common methods of assault, and also principles that the classical kata build on technically.

This doesnt devalue the Pinan in my eyes, they are a sound starting point.

I also think that the simplicity of movement and technique they represent is purposly there, it is for begineers to understand, the classical kata withoubt doubt introduce more complex/efficient technique. (worth mentioning that i only practise and teach Pinan Sho and Ni these days)

Just my stance on it.