My turn - Gankaku

Posted by: SNieves

My turn - Gankaku - 03/01/08 07:07 PM

I am posting this to get input on my performance of the Shotokan kata: Gankaku.

Here is when I first learned it last summer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HAp7Bfno_0

Here is a few months ago:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZItKxLuO5l4&feature=related

I wanted to show the progression of the the learning of a kata from early learning stages to final refinement.

I will be posting a 3rd video when I get it recorded sometime this week. The 2nd video allowed me to find out many technical and just plain wrong errors of my performance of the kata I had to fix.

So far, I have earned 2, 2nd place trophies and a 1st place finish with the kata. My son tells me I do the kata better in tournament than on film. I tell him that it's the camera making me want to perform than just "doing" the kata.

Please share your thoughts and tips.

Osu.
Posted by: MattJ

Re: My turn - Gankaku - 03/01/08 09:10 PM

Hey, I'm really enjoying seeing everyone's contributions! While I don't know the form, everything looked sharp. I really liked the jump front kick. Nice!
Posted by: WhiteDragon11

Re: My turn - Gankaku - 03/01/08 10:26 PM

Hey man

Nice progress in the form. Your techinque and balance are shown very well in these videos. Keep it up!
Posted by: pcrawf

Re: My turn - Gankaku - 03/02/08 09:54 AM

Hi.

What sort of input are you looking for? I'm guessing that you don't do Shotokan, and are competing in open tournaments? If you're doing well in the tournaments, and that is your main aim, then you probably don't need advice from a Shotokan guy.

If you're after attempting to perform Gankaku a la Shotokan, then there are plenty of videos of it done by people like Tanaka and Kanazawa on the net.

Until you tell us your goals, I think you wil be unlikely to receieve any useful advice.
Posted by: SNieves

Re: My turn - Gankaku - 03/02/08 11:14 AM

No, not a Shotokan guy but it's the kata my Master Instructor gave me to learn last year. Yes I am competing in open tournaments with it at this time. I have watched Valdesi perform the kata. I like his version of it. I don't think I can do it exactly like him but it's the model I use. My actual favorite karate practitioner is this guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOKH2stYNWo&mode=user&search=

Anyway, I am looking for things that I am not doing well from a technical point of view and what I am doing wrong technique and kata wise.

Thanks in advance for your input.

Osu.
Posted by: pcrawf

Re: My turn - Gankaku - 03/02/08 12:05 PM

OK, I have to say that I'm not so keen on Valdesi's interpretation, but I can admire his athletic ability.

Regarding your Gankaku, and commenting on your performance, and how it differs from a "standard" (if there is such a thing...), I'll offer the following:

The opening move is usually done slightly differently than the way you do it. Rather than firing the X-block from the hips, the hands come from the lower right hand side and end up all the way across the body on the left.

The shift left into kibadachi after the kakiwake uke in front stance is normally done by stepping back with the left leg, rather than forwards with the right.

I would also suggest that you should be in a sidestance after the middle two side kicks - where you're doing the hook punch.

Finally, the rising elbow strike near the end would benefit from more drive, like you would do in a reverse punch, closing the hips. I think Valdesi's performance at this point is particularly lacking as he sacrifices (and it's not just here) power generation for show, IMO.

I think Kanazawa's performance encapsulates most of these points, although there are small differences between his version and standard JKA. You can see it here:

Kanazawa's Gankaku

As I say, these criticisms may only be relevant if you're not already aware of these points and have chosen to do your kata another way. If the kata is for performance and aesthetic appeal, you're going to have as many differences of opinion as you are replies...

Hope the above is of some use however, and kudos to you for putting your kata up for all to see.

Regards,


Peter
Posted by: shoshinkan

Re: My turn - Gankaku - 03/02/08 01:31 PM

could I ask what system you practice?

good improvement shown between the 2 videos IMO, very different from our Chinto kata however, which is fine and dandy.
Posted by: Shonuff

Re: My turn - Gankaku - 03/02/08 06:33 PM

Sho,

I've seen a video of Hohan Soken doing chinto, it's almost identical to the Shotokan version and certainly much closer to the shotokan than to the other versions I've seen. Is that not the one you practice? or when you say very different are you looking at the fine details?
Posted by: shoshinkan

Re: My turn - Gankaku - 03/03/08 03:13 AM

yes the general kata is similair,

I was thinking of timing, power emphasis, speed of movements, combinations etc etc.

this is why I asked what system it is from, to get a better handle on how it is being worked.
Posted by: SNieves

Re: My turn - Gankaku - 03/03/08 08:33 AM

Name of our School: Oshirokan Karate
Style: Goshin Budo Bujutsu / Oshirokan Karate-Jutsu

Old Base katas: Taikyoku Shodan, Nidan, Sandan; Heian Shodan, Nidan, Sandan, Yodan, Godan; Two House Katas (who will remain nameless); Bassai Dai; Seienchin; Sanchin; Bassai Dai; Empi; Gankaku (at my level).

Thanks for your assistance.

Osu.

Quote:

yes the general kata is similair,

I was thinking of timing, power emphasis, speed of movements, combinations etc etc.

this is why I asked what system it is from, to get a better handle on how it is being worked.

Posted by: Barad

Re: My turn - Gankaku - 03/03/08 08:39 AM

Hate to say it all looks a it rushed to me, albeit the basic movements are more or less correct (I have been practising Gankaku for 17 or 18 years so I have had a while to ponder it!). Also-and I appreciate it may well be of no relevance to you as you are practicing for display-there seems to be no particular intent in performance of the movements.

B.
Posted by: SNieves

Re: My turn - Gankaku - 03/03/08 08:42 AM

Say what you will. That's why I put myself out there for all's input and critique.

I agree, the 2nd performance was extremely rushed. I looked at it and thought, wtf am in a hurry for?? Yes, I am using the kata as a performance piece for competition, but that does not mean, I should not display it with proper technique and at a high level of proficiency.

Osu.
Posted by: shoshinkan

Re: My turn - Gankaku - 03/03/08 09:09 AM

thats not a system im familiar with, so it's difficult for me to make any real comments outside of generalisms.

you mention your level, could I ask what rank you hold as that will give me an idea of level within any kata.

good for you by the way, I often put up my own karate for peoples comments, posative and negative comes from that!
Posted by: SNieves

Re: My turn - Gankaku - 03/03/08 10:28 AM

Sandan.

If you wish to know about our style, please feel free to email me directly: snieves4@cox.net.

Osu.
Posted by: shoshinkan

Re: My turn - Gankaku - 03/03/08 01:42 PM

e-mail sent, look forward to hearing back from you
Posted by: SNieves

Re: My turn - Gankaku - 03/04/08 01:11 PM

Great talking to you shoshin.

Well, I got my latest recording up on you tube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNbUEaDs2OE

I am much happier with this performance. Some things that stuck out to me.

-I was way off the line from the embusen to the top of the kata. It happened after the jump kick. While performing I noticed that I was attempting to follow my path towards a corner of the room as opposed to the straight line path from my starting point. I adjustd mid stream and corrected it.

-I didn't feel it during the kata but I see on the video I over adjusted on the first horse stance and stepped back to far with my left foot making my kiba dachi offline. I noticed I was stepping back with the wrong foot weeks ago and started to correct that error.

It seems I was wandering a bit. It never happened before and was a bit surprised when I noticed it while I was executing the kata and after seeing the rest on video. More focus daniel-san!

-That stupid head bob of mine on the last kick. It looks like I did a bit of it on the first kick as well. I don't know where the heck that comes from but it irks the bajeezers out of me. Going to have to work on that.

I will post a 4th video next week after working on it some more this week.

Osu.
Posted by: shoshinkan

Re: My turn - Gankaku - 03/04/08 02:03 PM

Good stuff Sam,

keep it coming, I wish more of us were happy to 'publically' show what we do and accept posative hints and praise where it's due.
Posted by: JohnL

Re: My turn - Gankaku - 03/05/08 08:45 AM

Hey Sam

Believe it or not I seriously considered not posting before writing this.

I looked at your introduction post to try and understand your background after I had seen the video's. I did this after you'd posted the first 2, and have now seen your third.

I have practiced Shotokan for a while (it's my base style) and any comments I have reflect a shotokan guy's viewpoint.

I believe your kata performance reflects your MA background which seems to be varied amongst many styles for short periods. This seems to have given you no solid base to work from. I could go through the kata performance and comment but it would read like a novel and be of little use to you.

You note that you're still working on this kata, but my suggestion would be to stop. You need to take your techniques right back to basics and develop them in a solid and confident manner from which you could then start to address Kata issues. Without those basics, trying to improve the kata is really like trying to paint a house that's been built poorly.

You say that you want to compete with this kata and have done so successfully in the past. I would suggest that this is due to the level of the competition rather than any competancy in the kata itself.

I considered putting this into a pm to you, but then thought, hell this is a forum, that's what this is for.

I don't decry your efforts, and putting up a vidio of yourself for open criticism is seriously ballsy.

I genuinly wish you luck and rewards for your efforts, but from what I saw of the video's unless you go back to basics, you are unlikely to succeed.
Posted by: SNieves

Re: My turn - Gankaku - 03/05/08 09:49 AM

Alrighty then. Thanks for your honesty and candor. And thanks for the motivation.

Osu.

Quote:

Hey Sam

Believe it or not I seriously considered not posting before writing this.

I looked at your introduction post to try and understand your background after I had seen the video's. I did this after you'd posted the first 2, and have now seen your third.

I have practiced Shotokan for a while (it's my base style) and any comments I have reflect a shotokan guy's viewpoint.

I believe your kata performance reflects your MA background which seems to be varied amongst many styles for short periods. This seems to have given you no solid base to work from. I could go through the kata performance and comment but it would read like a novel and be of little use to you.

You note that you're still working on this kata, but my suggestion would be to stop. You need to take your techniques right back to basics and develop them in a solid and confident manner from which you could then start to address Kata issues. Without those basics, trying to improve the kata is really like trying to paint a house that's been built poorly.

You say that you want to compete with this kata and have done so successfully in the past. I would suggest that this is due to the level of the competition rather than any competancy in the kata itself.

I considered putting this into a pm to you, but then thought, hell this is a forum, that's what this is for.

I don't decry your efforts, and putting up a vidio of yourself for open criticism is seriously ballsy.

I genuinly wish you luck and rewards for your efforts, but from what I saw of the video's unless you go back to basics, you are unlikely to succeed.

Posted by: student_of_life

Re: My turn - Gankaku - 03/05/08 04:09 PM

great progresson man, you can see a leap in preformance each time. i like it.

to critique a little. at the 1:00 mark the lunge punch, when you kiai'd your head tipd back a bit. makes for a throaty kiai, and it breaks the kinimatic chain in the posteroir muscle groups. it's bad for your neck. and at 1:10, is that a kiba dachi or a shiko dachi?

you've got thoes turns on one leg down prety smooth! i bet they've gotta be murder the 15th time through. great work. POST MORE!!
Posted by: SNieves

Re: My turn - Gankaku - 03/05/08 08:51 PM

Thank you for the compliment and I appreciate the critique. Normally, the kata is performed with a kiba dachi at 1:10. Thanks for pointing that out. I just looked at my other two video and I do the same thing. Part of my natural way of moving maybe?

Quote:

great progresson man, you can see a leap in preformance each time. i like it.

to critique a little. at the 1:00 mark the lunge punch, when you kiai'd your head tipd back a bit. makes for a throaty kiai, and it breaks the kinimatic chain in the posteroir muscle groups. it's bad for your neck. and at 1:10, is that a kiba dachi or a shiko dachi?

you've got thoes turns on one leg down prety smooth! i bet they've gotta be murder the 15th time through. great work. POST MORE!!

Posted by: SNieves

Re: My turn - Gankaku - 03/06/08 04:01 PM

I want to thank everyone that shared their input and commentary to this thread. I have think I have enough information to improve my execution of this kata.

Osu.