Kusanku - Kise - Chinto - Soken

Hi Med.,

As to who the clip is, I only had their tag, and individual who posted it changed the name. It poses one of the innumerable questions about all material, books, videos and internet, is it correct?

What you see is what you see. The Kusanku is generic Shorin in many respects. I could take the time to dig out my video footage of Soken and compare them, or I could dig out my Toshiki Gillespie version and compare it too.

But the ultimate truth isn't mine to distinguish.

The clips are only touch points.

That Kusanku is similar to a Shorin Kusanku I studied many years ago, but also different and it is different from my Isshinryu version, but after a few decades of work I know I appreciate my own version more.

Whilst im no authority on kusanku (It is a kata I have just begun in the system I train now) I see massive similarities to the version we practise within Shinseido Shorin Ryu (Seito Matsumura based.)



Budoc or Bryan are the men for this one I guess.

Apparently I found the wrong Nishime. A friend in Japan is researching further but it's nto the one in America teaching Mabsubayshi Ryu and Yammani Ryu. Instead its a student of Sokeh Hohen.

If I find out more I'll post it.

I shall ask my Sensei today he will know for sure, im no expert and the video isnt particulary clear.

any confirmation on who this is training Kusanku yet?

'Quick question. I have been studying kushanku (restudying)
and even in the same style the interpretation gets changed.
The grandmaster has the answers. The understudies(5th dans etc) have an answer that to me makes less sense and it isnt the principle the grand master is trying to put forward.

Might this apply to different ways of doing katas?
The change in techniques such as a fist or an open hand etc I think is subject to the specific target area reached by applying the principle.'


Personally for me each kata movement embraces a core priciple/lesson, often 2-3 actually. And generally instructors in the same system should undertand/demonstrate those principles - the system principles passed on in kata.

Then of course you get the 'little bits and bobs', which ultimatly become personal as each instructor is different, as is each student, so for application traiining this aspect shoud be considered personal, once the core message is understood and drilled.

now to the kata, I understand kata as meaning mould/shape and with that in mind it should look very alike technically from whatever instructor who demonstrates - this is the base form that is taught within the system.

however over time the base form will of course become part of the instructor and they will naturally perform the movements as the visualise what is going on better, and that changes day to day, moment to moment. My 'hard arse' Naihanchi looks different from my 'soft' naihanchi - but it is really the same.


I hope that makes some kind of sense and is of use!

This is my first time here so please bear with me. I usually don't bother with these forums but I was so impressed with this thread I had to make a comment. First it is obvious to me that all of you have a really good grasp on the subject at hand and all have valid points. Here is what I have experienced. I began my training in Matsubayashi Ryu in 1968 under Terry Sweet. But I have been a student since I was 10 yrs. of age (Judo). I was fortunate enough to train in Okinawa with Master Nagamine. Name a major figure in Shorin Ryu between 68 and now and I have either trained with them or at least observed them at close range. I was granted my first dojo license in 1976 by Master Nagamine. Have any of you seen the first Matsubayshi Ryu video released by Takayoshi Nagamine? That old black and white film of Takayoshi doing kata----well i'm the guy who filmed that a couple of decades back. I have seen Kusanku and all of the other forms performed in person by father and son and by other greats such as Taba, Iha, and so on and on. And trust me, no one does them exactly the same. Last March I was reunited with Master Taba and had the chance to sit with him and four of his master instructors from Okinawa. The subject turned to kata and the differences in the way that all of the organizations calling themselves "Matsubayshi Ryu" interpret them. Taba had this to say. First of all Americans spend too much time with philosophy and trying to copy other peoples technique. While striving for perfection is admirable what is more important is the bunkai. There are too many kyu ranks and lower rank dans worrying about Kusanku when they don't even understand the Pinans. I have heard master Nagamine make the same statement on many occasions. When I asked Sensei about people changing the kata's he had this to say. That changing the kata is in itself not a bad thing if your purpose is "to take it higher". But to try to change something you do not fully understand yourself is just defeating the who purpose of the kata. He pointed out that all of the kata have undergone changes. A major problem he pointed out is Okinawan instructors who changed the forms to make them more pleasing to non Okinawan students. It was a very thought provoking 3 hour discussion way to long to cover here. But I believe that all of you have the right idea. Anyhow, forgive me for rambling on. You are all a credit to the art. Keep punching and kicking. Respectfully. Bob

Wow you are so fortunate to have had such experiences. Welcome to the forums. I look forward to hearing more about your experinces

What's up Bob. It's Marcel, I was there at the seminar with you. I especially enjoyed the last day in Columbus where there were only 3 of us being instructed and corrected by Taba and the okinawans. I hope everything is going well.

Welcome Bob.
I also look forward to hearing more about your expereinces

Thank you all for the warm welcome. Give me some time to navigate and I will post my profile. Marcel it is great to hear from you and I hope you are well. The seminar was fun. But one thing will stick in my mind a long time. It was trying to learn Bo technique in a room full of low hanging crystal chandeliers. Now that is bound to improve your technique.

Welcome, Bob. Thank you for the insights.