funakoshis katas

Sanchin,

Off hand (without spending 1/2 a day digging out material on them) they were something like the Promotional Kata. I know there were several articles on the mid 1930's on Okinawa several years ago.

First Nagamine and Miyagi were asked to create two beginnign forms. The result was the Fuygata Sho and Ni kata. Nagamine created the Sho and Miyagi created the Ni (later to be his Geseki Sho - but differening accounts on the creation exist I just know the Nagamine group continue using both as as their beginning kata.

A year or so after that, say 35 or 36, another group of instrutors were asked to create a set of beginning forms, the purpose was for the general populace, perhaps as the Chinese do group Tai Chi, for overall health. The accounts state nobody adopted the kata for their style.

But in the Nakasone 1938 Encyclopedia of Karate there are 10 basic kata shown, and the assumption must be they were those kata.

When I spent 10 years training in Shotokan, one night the isntructor did an advanced drill taking the Takoyoku kata and building move after move in succesive versiosn, crafted quite an advanced drill for balance in technique execution.

When I saw Nakasone's book the drill he used was remarkably similar to those 10 progressive kata. And having done something similar I understood what they could be used for. I would theorize the text being pulished in Japan, likely had the impact on becoming a drill for advanced Shotokan drills.

The kata are interesting, but I can see no value for trying to use them for students, but the advanced drill is always something to pull out of the hat for dan training.

My belief is their creation was likely to create a public art based on their karate tradition.

And of course they weren't created for school children, rather everyone young and old, trying to imitate the Chinese Tai Chi groups for health.

Remember I'm just pulling this out of memory, and I hope I haven't distorted things too much.

On a separate note Nakasone's 1938 Encyclopedia of Karate is one of the truly fascinating texts. Nakasone was an Okinawan business man who didn't do karate, but loved the Okinawan arts. This book was one of several he sponsored to help spread his culture. It is a treasure, and links up with Mutsu's 1933 work on the Okinawan karate arts as truly invaluable texts. Along with Funakoshi's first books, Mabuni's writings and Motobu's, a true link to earlier karate tradition is found.

Hopefully within a few years translations of Mutsu's and Nakasone's work will be available.

Many questions about what was in karate will be put to rest.

Sanchin your post realy interests me. I have studied Shotokan karate for 6 years I know taikyoku shodan of course as this is the first entrance kate at white belt level. But I have never herd of the taikyoku nidan, sandan kata only the Heian katas. I have read many books as well and never seen refference to these two kata. I guess my question is what are tthey can you describe them please.
Dan

Bryan,

No I wasn't guessing, just applied logic.

First the Takiyoku kata were developed just prior or during WWII. Using Harry Cooks indepth study of Shotokan, there was reference to them being listed on the Shotokan Dojo wall during WWII.

At that period the Shotokan folks were not teaching youth. So the kata were not developed to teach school kids. My first line of inquiry leads me to accept that dealing with large groups of beginners, it was easier to have simpler kata for large group instruction.

Second, Mr. Cook was quite clear for the years after WWII till his death in 58, the Takiyoku kata were the ones incessantly taught by Funakoshi Sensei. Students report spending months and months in instruction with him and only Takiyoku ShoDan being studied over and over.

From his autobiography that's how he was trained as a beginner on Okinawa on the Naihanchi, incessent non-stop repetition.

As to why, tradition is one answer, another Funakoshi was not personally enamored with learning more and more kata, and perhaps felt really getting very, very good at one was more important. A level of training most today are not really competent to discuss, unless your instructor spent say 5 years working on one kata with you non-stop. I wasn't trained that way, but intellectually I understand it is a path.

There is a large distinction between how the originator (wheter created by him, or created with his direction) saw the kata's use, and how he used it, and then how it was used afterwards.

The historical record points that Funakoshi wasn't interested in the kata as a beginners kata, the way anyone considers a beginners kata today.

Of course, following a different tradition, I don't use the Takiyoku kata or the Pinan kata, because they're necessary to teach great karate, and they're not the "TRUE" karate tradition.

But I have tools that can make any of them quite interesting drilling exercises for the most competent. Teach one how to take anyone apart with any of them. Of course thats a different topic, how to use real karate.

More interesting, if one really want's to speculate, the Promotional Kata developed on Okinawa and published in Japan in Nakasone's Encyclopedia of Karate, in 1938, might have been pre-cursors to the Tak. kata? Or they may have been simultaneous developments at the same time in different places.

All one has is what remains of the historical record, and applied logic.

But schoolboy kata, that's really an argument how they were later used, not what they were created for.

IMVHO,

this link shows every kata funakoshi invented
http://www.ozwebart.com.au/kua/kata.htm

Coming into this thread with an interest in real life SD training, I've got to agree with sanchin. I think these kata have great value because of their simplicity. The applications that I have got from these kata are exactly the kind of moves needed in an adrenaline charged situation, with it's inherent loss of fine motor skills. Granted they may lack the style and destructiveness of more advanced kata, but they do contain techniques to win fights in a more, shall we say, common way. Not necesarily breaking limbs and throat strikes, but more pull off balance, punch to the head type stuff. Probably a lot more useful to your average once/twice a week student. Having said that they do include basic body drops as well which still works with the principles of other kata in that they give high regard to the controlling of an opponent to the floor and finishing there.
Every time I think I've wrung out everything I can, something else will have me wondering.
Ain't kata great?

Doh! I've just realised how old this thread is.
I think it was deader than disco.

This is a spanish site, anyway what matters is the pictures:
www.karatekas.com

If anyone is reading this thread and interested, E.J Harrisons 1959 book "The Manual of Karate" based on the work of Reikichi Oya contains reference and details/illustrations on Ten-No-Kata up to Ura No 6. ISBN is 0-572-00063-4.After reading through it I think that Ten-No-Kata is certainly a very good basic training method although I was surprised that it is in fact no more than a kumite drill and not a kata in the normal sense at all. It's name is pretty misleading.