Forearm Conditioning

Posted by: Ender

Forearm Conditioning - 10/10/03 06:51 PM

I have heard alot of talk about shin bone conditioning on this forum (a method of training I do practice from time to time), but not alot about conditioning the fore arm.

The fore arm bone can, when conditioning, become like a steel pole, and the muscles surrouding it become like wood. This I know from experience after feeling my Sensei's arms and experiencing his blocks in a drill demonstration.

He threw a chudan soto uke (outside middle) block with his left arm, as I threw a reverse punch with my right hand. As soon as he made contact I lost all feeling my arm, and had my arm went blue and purple.

Afterwards, he explained to me that he had purposely eased up on the block, as he didn't want to break my arm.

Furthermore, he went on to demonstrate blocking a full power roundhouse to the ribcage (done with the shin) thrown from another student. He didn't move, or evade, or back off. He stood his ground, and blocked the hardened shin bone flying at him at full force with just his left fore arm. I watched it connect, and he didn't even faze. He smiled, and continued the lesson.

I was awestuck. That kick, had I tried to block, would have gone right through my arm, and he didn't even have a bruise.

So, I have begun conditioning my fore arms (something we do practice in my dojo through drills [which I can post directions on if any are interested to learn to apply to their own training]).

Any of you also condition your fore arms?

Comments?
Posted by: ninja-raiden

Re: Forearm Conditioning - 10/10/03 07:27 PM

I made a topic about this not long ago and everyone said it's useless.
Posted by: joesixpack

Re: Forearm Conditioning - 10/10/03 08:22 PM

everyone is a dickhead.

My forearms do not bruise. Years of contact fighting and condtioning. How is this useless?

The again, I am a nut. I do forearm stiff on an old clothesline, my shins on the bag and on a paperbark tree, and use to hit trees.

Look! No permament damage!
Posted by: Kevin

Re: Forearm Conditioning - 10/10/03 08:26 PM

Yes Ender, I am interested in learning how to condition my forearms. What would you recommend?
Posted by: joesixpack

Re: Forearm Conditioning - 10/11/03 05:45 AM

I recommend a sequence of outer, inner and lower blocks against a partner (facing each other), using the muscle and bone for contact. Then the other arm.., then the firts one, then the alternate, and so on and so on.

After this, go against paperbark trees.

Then harder trees.

Then a metal pole (street sign or "clothesline" (you know, you hang the washing to dry on it...), I don't know what Yankees call them...)
Posted by: Ender

Re: Forearm Conditioning - 10/11/03 12:24 PM

My dojo uses an exercise I've heard called "Shaolin Arm conditioning", as is performed as follows.

Stand left foot forward in Zenkutsu Dachi (forward leaning stance in karate. If you are not in karate or have never been in karate, I will address how to perform this stance in a later post). Your partner does the same. Both of you Extend your left arm (fist closed) and line it up with each others solar plexus (not actually part of the technique, but it helps to get started). Pull your right hand back into chamber (we use high ribcage/armpit champer, unlike many karate disciplines which chambers at the hip).

Each of you at the same time:

Swing your right arm out in an arc, and connect the top of your fore arm to the top of their fore arm, then, from there, bypass each others arms and swing your arm up in to a sort of chudan-uke (middle area) block, and connect with the left side of your forearm. From there, then swing your arm down again, connecting right side of fore arm on right side of fore arm. Shift the hips and repeat the process with the left arm.

How hard you do this depends on how quick you want results, how much pain you can take (it gets pretty damn painful after awhile).

I prefer to do this (with a willing partner) as hard as possible. It has left no lasting effect on me thus far, and my fore arms are coming around rather nicely.

I apologize if these instructions aren't quite clear, I can clarify if needed.
Posted by: kman

Re: Forearm Conditioning - 10/11/03 02:25 PM

Blocking drills done on a Wing Chun dummy go a long way towards hte desired outcome.
Posted by: Kevin

Re: Forearm Conditioning - 10/11/03 09:37 PM

Thanks for the advice Ender and Joe. Oh and by the way Joe, us yankees call them clotheslines too. Kman, I dont have a wing chung dummy, think I could improvise with a tree? I got plenty of those.
Posted by: Bossman

Re: Forearm Conditioning - 10/12/03 07:01 AM

Your arms are "feelers" and should be sensitised not desensitised. Learn how to roll the blows using spirals curves and circles and how to stick and follow. Learn how to use the rotations of wrists, arms waist and use of feet. Banging your arms agains inanimate objects is not healthy or skilfull.

Steve
Posted by: joesixpack

Re: Forearm Conditioning - 10/12/03 07:48 AM

Neither is shin conditioning. But it helps you fight.
Posted by: Bossman

Re: Forearm Conditioning - 10/12/03 08:32 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by joesixpack:
Neither is shin conditioning. But it helps you fight.[/QUOTE]

"Fight" is a big term. It might help if you're a Thai boxer but it's of little use in the street.

Steve
Posted by: Ender

Re: Forearm Conditioning - 10/12/03 10:57 AM

Bossman, I condition my forearms and I can still feel fine.

I am not talking about deadening the nerves (if thats what Im doing, it isnt working, because I can still feel them fine).

What I am doing is hardening the bone and strengthening the muscle.

As for shin and fore arm conditioning applicable on the street, I beg to differ. Eventually I'll be able to break somones arm when they punch (with a block). I wont even need to throw a punch to end a fight.
Posted by: ninja-raiden

Re: Forearm Conditioning - 10/12/03 12:42 PM

I was at my friend's house, when my friend's brother full contactact sparred with his friend; a 3rd degree blackbelt in wushu.

My friend's brother kept trying to hit this guy but his blocks were just unstoppable....
Posted by: Bossman

Re: Forearm Conditioning - 10/13/03 04:14 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ender:
Bossman, I condition my forearms and I can still feel fine.

I am not talking about deadening the nerves (if thats what Im doing, it isnt working, because I can still feel them fine).

What I am doing is hardening the bone and strengthening the muscle.

As for shin and fore arm conditioning applicable on the street, I beg to differ. Eventually I'll be able to break somones arm when they punch (with a block). I wont even need to throw a punch to end a fight.
[/QUOTE]

If you want to strengthen the muscles then train them, the bones will also get stronger over a period of time training. Weapons training or weights will do that productively. Continually hitting them will stop the flow of new blood cells from the bone.

I've taught in the security industry for over 30 years and if I took only a handful of my students, their fight record would be in the thousands - and no one has ever broken an arm with a block or heard of someone doing so. All the experienced guys work on sensitising and using curves spirals and circles on touch.

In the Dojo students might stop when their arms are hurt, when the adrenalins up for real and if they're on drugs or alcohol they won't even feel it.

Steve
Posted by: JohnL

Re: Forearm Conditioning - 10/13/03 08:21 AM

Smacking forearms and shins with opponents and inanimate objects may appeal to themacho image you are trying to create but will do little to improve your abilities as a fighter.

When someone attacks me, I consider a good block as one that redirects the attack so that it isn't going to hit me done softly enough so that my opponent doesn't realize it's been redirected untill it's too late.

JohnL
Posted by: joesixpack

Re: Forearm Conditioning - 10/13/03 06:59 PM

And of course you use very smooth hand movements to block thigh kicks and punches to your heart, and your foreamrs never bruise, and your shins have impeccable control over your opponent.

And no one you has fought hasn't had the kyokushin tactic of attacking the limbs to break down the body?

Um, no?

I don't like using my arms as riot shields, but sometimes it is all that is available or part of a bigger manouvere. When I do check thigh kicks, I do try to redirect it, upset their balance, but my shin HAS to contact with theirs.

Better them than me.

Got any suggestions to checking thigh kicks, other than using the shin?

A check with a conditioned shin on an unconditioned one can end the fight. Invaluable.
Posted by: joesixpack

Re: Forearm Conditioning - 10/13/03 10:42 PM

Don't get me wrong, I think small circular movements to redirect punching, and so on, and then attacking vigourously is a superb method of self defense. Yielding then letting the hard rain commence. It is one thing I am working on at the moment.

But how do you defend against thigh kicks, or fighters who attack the limbs?
Posted by: Bossman

Re: Forearm Conditioning - 10/14/03 11:29 AM

Many of my friends are from Kyokushin, Steve Arniel is a personal friend of mine, I do a lot of work with Dennis Jones ex Kyokushin and 23 yrs on the doors - read all the articles on this link:
http://www.shikon.com/article_links.asp?typ=AG1003

And Dennis will answer a lot of the questions you have.

There is always a curve on any movement and you simply match it, then there is no forceful collision. Original Kyokushin worked on this premise, as did the late Ashihara who broke away from Kyokushin. Thigh kicks are usually met with a circular motion of the leg disrupting the kickers balance and then destroying the kickers knee with the same or other leg.

Hope this helps.

Steve
Posted by: malanr

Re: Forearm Conditioning - 10/14/03 03:24 PM

He threw a chudan soto uke (outside middle) block with his left arm, as I threw a reverse punch with my right hand. As soon as he made contact I lost all feeling my arm, and had my arm went blue and purple.


Ender,

have you studied pressure points at all? There are points on the arms that, when striked can cause the same effect. You might try to see if your sensi has knowledge about this also. Or, see if you can associate the bruise with the pressure points.

Just a thought.

PS. i agree with not trying to desensitize the forearm, just try to use the word deflect, instead of block. Also, In my opinion, anyone that tells you to use your forearm to block a kick is nuts. Just get out of the WAY!