Invitation to all ninjitsu practitioners

Out of respect for all Arts and to make up for what has been seen by some as my unprovoked slandering of ninjitsu, here is an invitation. Would any genuine ninjitsu practitioners please get a post rolling (either in reply to this or on a fresh post) regrading the Art, its principles, etc. I'm sure we can all learn something from a genuine practitioner.

Regds
Mr V

I thought we had, but then you shut it down
[IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/frown.gif[/IMG]

Seriously, I think ninjutsu is the most maligned and misunderstood arts around, and I am guilty myself of dismissing it without really understanding it. So I too would welcome someone putting forward the case for the art.


Budo [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

PS Joe - I'm ecstatic...I was beginning to think you'd never learn. There's hope for all us BudoKA then.

[This message has been edited by Cato (edited 05-04-2003).]

Lol I shut it down because it was suggested that a fresh start might encourage the ninja out of the shadows and that the previous post was a little unhelpful [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

Regds
Mr V

please someone start a new ninjitsu forum. I will be willing to try to seperate the myths from the truth.

I've already said that you can request a new forum area at the "site suggestions" area of the board. If you mean start a completely different resource dedicated to ninjitsu and seperate from this website, then I suggest you start it yourself. In any case ive had to delete what I thought was your farewell post because of the massive quantity of bad language and the abject insanity regarding kidnapping at the end of it. If you want to keep posting on ninjitsu then please do, but watch the language. I opened this thread for people to talk about ninjitsu NOT so people can talk about talking about ninjitsu. DO ANY GENUINE PRACTITIONERS WANT TO POST REGARDING THE ART AND ITS CONCEPTS IF SO GET POSTING AND STOP TALKING ABOUT HOW TO START!!!!!

Regds
Mr V



[This message has been edited by MrVigerous (edited 05-05-2003).]

I am ashamed to admit it, but I did quite a few lessons of Ninjutsu in the 1980`s.

Apart from the stupid low stance we had to do, it was actually ok, some nice takedowns, and most of it was attacking an opponent from behind, I would think that this is something we don’t actually train in much with other styles.

Didn’t wear the full outfit (thank god!) just a black Gi.

It really was “different” I still teach a few of the techniques/principles that I learnt.

Had to leave the club as the smoke bombs gave me asthma.

Mark

I must admit I know very little about it, except to say that - as far as I know its not really practised outside Japan.

I know there are a couple of real schools dotted around the US, but the true masters are few and far between.

But I am not sure on this.

Ok. I apologies for the out-burst, that was very dis-honorable. I will put some of the myths straight then. First off I want First off I willcomment on ninja magic. Ninja magic isn't really magic, of course but it is actually tricks. I'll not totally give away the secrets, but I can give a basic idea of a few. How to walk on water: Ninjas weren't super humans or anything they just always came prepared. They would have buoy like things and strap them to their feet. The fotation devise would be just under the water making it appear as if he were on water....can't really see the use of this unless you're trying to intimidate an opponent or something.
Art of Invisabilty: Noone could really get invisable unless they're a hollywood star or something in a movie. In ninjitsu you are usually trained highly on stealth. To come invisable all you have to do is drop a smoke bomb and put your stealth traing to use. I am sorry I don't have enogh time to say more I am busy right now. If any of you have any questions pertaining to ninjitsu fell free to ask me or the other guy on here who said he trained in the art. By the way if you want a game that relates cclosest to the real way of the ninja I would get tenchu, hints where I got my screen name.

http://www.theonion.com/onion3535/disgruntled_ninja.html

HAHAHAA THATS GREAT!

That,story can't be true. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif[/IMG]

Ninjutsu must be rare.

No Jinnekan, Genbukan or Bujinkan?

One person on the board is a ninjustuka, a few allude to cross training in it and only a handful did before.

Ninjutsu IS rare, having a look in Blitz, I see two ads for it, one being Bujikan (Sensei Lomax), another is "Ninjukai" from Western Australia.

Either it's rare,Or is it a false MA.

Where's the proof of ninjutsu being a MA?

The reasons it seems sooo rare on this board might have something to do with the attitude of people on this board you know, joe6 [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]

Ninjiutsu seems to be getting bad rap every where I go. I don't understand.
As if other jiutsu-arts (e.g. aiki jiutsu or ju jiutsu or iai jiutsu) people are practicing their arts 100% true to their martial root!? but yet they don't get the same discrimination. Sure, there is probably no real ninja left, but can you find one surviving samurai?

And so I remain baffled...

let me clarify this for everyone who either doesn't understand or simply hates ninjitsu for whatever reason.

There are no such things as ninjas anymore. Ninjitsu, like every other MA, had to evolve with the times in order to survive as an art.
It, again like all other MAs, has turned into a self-defensive style. This is because Mas are not used for their true purposes anymore. Most MAs were designed as offensive arts used very often to kill an enemy, this was especially true of ninjitsu. No one needed this anymore so, logically MAs turned to defense and ways to protect oneself against attackers, very useful in today's world. How many styles teach you how to attack someone? None that I know of. Therefore, ninjas are dead, there are however practisioners of ninjitsu, or ninjitsu-ka (I believe).

[This message has been edited by trog dor (edited 05-12-2003).]

Trog,Ninjutsu is the correct spelling of the word,Ninjitsu is how Ashida kim/chris hunter pells it,& yes that's what i'm really refering to,It's ninjitsu I have a prob with not ninjutsu.PS Now I'm confused. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/confused.gif[/IMG]

they're actually spelled both ways. and no no more ninjas exist.......................................................................................................................................or do they...........................................................................................................you'll probably never know if you keep yourself blocked out from any other ma other than the one you train in............................................................observe life around you, and seek the answers.

um, what?

I'm going to chose to ignore most of what you said and assume you're agreeing with my previous post. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

Actually ”E�p is not spelled "both ways"... you can spell it ninjiutsu or ninjutsu, but ninjitsu is wrong. The same goes for jujiutsu and aikijiutsu or whatever "jiutsu" (�p�j.

jiutsu/jutsu is just different ways to romanize the same word�i‚¶‚ã‚Â���p�j

jitsu �i‚¶‚Â�jis a completely different word.�@�iŽÀ�j

let me start off by saying that I am not japanese. Not being japanese in anyway, I do not have to have any interest in the japanese language or its little subtalities(sp?). The difference between ninjitsu and ninjutsu is none-existant to me. Personally I don't care whether it has an "i" or a "u", nor will I ever. Mind you I'm not insulting the language in anyway, I'm simply stating the fact that I fail to see the importance as an english speaker in absolute perfect spelling in a language I don't even speak (something that is technically impossible because we are translating japanese into our alphabet, therefore changing it). That aside, japanese in its native verbal and written form is very interesting and I may consider learning it for a future trip to japan. But until then I will not be troubled with trival details like the one you're arguing.

There's no need for pride in ignorance.

Racoon's point is valid. The accepted translation/spelling IS important for many reasons including accurate representation of meaning.

That is not a trivial distinction.

I apologize if I presented myself as being argumentative or patronising. I was only trying to present information. Whether it's a big deal or not is not my point u_u

-raccoon

Cody,I was being sarcastic,& I Did'nt think anyone would take me seriously,So I'm sorry for making an ass of myself. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/redface.gif[/IMG]

No prob' Karate dude [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG] I understand your sarcasm, but only because I have been introduced to the Ashida Kim Legend... if Ashida Kim didn't make such a bad name for himself and "ninjitsu"... then I would agree spelling isn't a big deal [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif[/IMG]

http://www.robotfrank.com/Ninja.htm

Back to the original subject, I have been to a Bujinkan school that I believe is genuine. The instructor seemed very down to earth and sincere. I visited a few time and he let me train for no charge. I would continue to go there but it is a little over an hour drive from my house. The instructor was certainly not interested in becoming rich considering tuition was a mere $30 per month and negotiable. Anyway, I visited a few times and from what I picked up, (Bujinkan) Ninjutsu concentrates on the 'center-line' theory. Another thing I noticed is that they concentrate on weak points on the body to break an opponent's balance, thus leaving them vulnerable to further attack. I went there last summer...then in the Fall I started Temple University in Philly and took Doshinkan Aikido as an elective. It was almost identical to what they were doing in the Bujinkan dojo. Perhaps that is because their root arts originated around the same time in Japan, but I mean they were almost the exact same stances, rolls, breakfalls, throws, etc. Also, they both stressed the importance of the 'center-line' (as many other arts do).

Well let me put my 2 cents in. This is all purely from what I saw on a documentary and from a book I read. It says that the original ninja's were made from abandoned children and they were used as spies and only in very rare situations did they kill anyone. There main goal was only info gathering. There training seemed really crazy though. one of the training requirments was to be able to run with a hat on his chest for a whole day with the hat only being held up by the force of the wind hitting it. Wether any of this is true or not I dont no but it all seemed to make sense to me. Also someone said they always came prepared and in this book it shows a lot of there equipment and there are some really cool things here.

have a look at the stuff by stephen k hayes.

I points out the reality surrounding the subject.

Welcome to the forum

If what you read about ninja's made sense to you, I anticipate a serious connection with Ender. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

Good luck

JohnL

Never trained in taijutsu(I believe this is what the actual unarmed techniques of ninjiutsu are called).My brother did.
From what my brother has shown me & what I have read, actual techniques are close to jujiutsu.

I cant believe that so much is still mis understood about this art. I am a Buinkam=n Member and instructor.....I would be happy to answer any questions that anyone has. Let me first point out that the ONLY legitamate Ninjutsu organization is the Bujinkan.

What is it about everyone on this forum slating any MA they know nothing about. I'm not a practioner of Ninjuitsu (please spell as you wish as it is uber important) however I am continously mocked for my involvement with the way of the furious fist.

Surely you cannot mock a martial art until you have stuidied it. If you did you would be like those annoying people on amazon that rate products that haven't been realeased yet. If a MA is enjoyable and feeds your inners self then it cannot be a bad thing. So if you want to wear black pyjamas and use smoke bombs it's ok with dragonfart. Peace out.

Hey... I wear silky pajama pants and my Black GI top to sleep... ><;

Try not to forget that Ninjutsu is not the only art of the "ninja". Ninpo is still practiced today in schools around the US. The most notable of those are the Genbukan Ninpo schools. I trained in one of these schools in Arizona years ago. The Genbukan Ninpo schools were founded by Shoto Tanemura, and his official website is www.genbukan.org

[QUOTE]Originally posted by tengu6:
I cant believe that so much is still mis understood about this art. I am a Buinkam=n Member and instructor.....I would be happy to answer any questions that anyone has. Let me first point out that the ONLY legitamate Ninjutsu organization is the Bujinkan.

[/QUOTE]

im actually a ninja. what do you need to know?

newguy......

Why is that name so familiar? [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

Actually the most notable and widely studied is the bujinkan. Tanemura was even a student of Hatsumi's. The genbukan can only be found in a handful of states while the bujinkan is practically everywhere. Their training is very similar though since most of the ryu Tanemura and Hatsumi trained in are the same.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 1st Round KO:
im actually a ninja. what do you need to know?[/QUOTE]

No KO, tell the truth, you are actually "Conquistador #1". Hmmmm. Or...perhaps, you are in fact my arch nemisis the dreaded Spaniard "La Ninja de la Jutsu" [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/eek.gif[/IMG]

(sorry about the gender issues, it was the only way I could get it to work)

- KiDoHAe [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/cool.gif[/IMG]

I have some ninja skills, as well as Isshinryu skills. Ninja skills include but are not limited to meditation, the art of hiding, Kuji Kiri ( hypnotic hand movements), Intelligence gathering, Espionage, climbing, covert entry, Sentry removal, Weapons and throwing, escaping, mind clouding, leaving no trace. Mugei No-Jitsu!

Hmmmm...Not so sure about this Shoto Tanemura cat. His bio, aside from being generally ridiculously padded, mentions that he was an exponent of "Shindo muso ryu kenpo." As far as I know, no such animal exists. Shindo/Shinto muso ryu is the school of jojutsu founded by Muso Gonnosuke Katsuyoshi. A search for this 'style' of kenpo only turns up Tanemura's page, and SMR related sites.

Guys, I must come clean with something about myself. I am a ninja. Since a child I learned to climb trees, hide in bushes, attatch hooked objects to ropes in hopes that I could scale my garage, I even had a ninja mask! I made shurikens out of wood and sharpened them. I skipped school on many occasions to go down to the lake and focus my ki power and throw roundhouse kicks at mosquitos that flew by. I honed my skills until ......... HAHAHA I can't go on. There are no ninjas guys. Please stop before I fall out of my chair.

"Taijitsu" was a fighting art that many ninjas knew. "Hojo Jitsu" was the art of rope use/binding. (Samurai actually knew Hojo Jitsu, for there were no handcuffs back then). I could bore you with tons of ancient history but I will stop here and just ask you guys to refrain from embarassing yourselves anymore.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kain Schwarz:
Guys, I must come clean with something about myself. I am a ninja. Since a child I learned to climb trees, hide in bushes, attatch hooked objects to ropes in hopes that I could scale my garage, I even had a ninja mask! I made shurikens out of wood and sharpened them. I skipped school on many occasions to go down to the lake and focus my ki power and throw roundhouse kicks at mosquitos that flew by. I honed my skills until ......... HAHAHA I can't go on. There are no ninjas guys. Please stop before I fall out of my chair.

"Taijitsu" was a fighting art that many ninjas knew. "Hojo Jitsu" was the art of rope use/binding. (Samurai actually knew Hojo Jitsu, for there were no handcuffs back then). I could bore you with tons of ancient history but I will stop here and just ask you guys to refrain from embarassing yourselves anymore.[/QUOTE]

Ninja don't exist in the context you have put them, with the exception of in the movies. The art of ninjutsu however is still widely practiced.

I'm happy to see new guys come in and feel they can be so condescending to others in the forum. Feel free to continue though. Hopefully you will establish some credibility and be a valuable addition to the forum.

I don't fall into that category, do I laf? I don't try, it's just that outright stupidity bugs me. Especially when one is sitting by a computer to think through what they happen to be posting. It's not like you can type a slip of the tongue.

Wow, I just went into another rant, I guess I do fall into that condescending newcomer category.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Foolsgold:
I don't fall into that category, do I laf? I don't try, it's just that outright stupidity bugs me. Especially when one is sitting by a computer to think through what they happen to be posting. It's not like you can type a slip of the tongue.

Wow, I just went into another rant, I guess I do fall into that condescending newcomer category.[/QUOTE]


From what i can tell the only "issues" i've seen in your post are simple misunderstandings. So no you’re not in that category. We all have our moments. The question is do we intend to be a horse’s hindquarter all the time or are we going to make some sort of contribution? For some it may be both.

I just wished people would start being more open minded about things like this. If anyone questions anything anyone else believes to be true and practices than instead of using your knowledge of movies and tv shows how about trying to do your own research. Open mindedness will actually bring you further than you may ever know. If anyone has any questions on ninjustu just ask, I will try to help out the best I can.

It is pretty sad how people won't use google to learn a bit about the art. Google is an incredibly useful tool guys, try it out.

I wanted to step in here and mention that the poster Immortaldragon is on the right track (Not entirely, but he's got the idea).
Ninjutsu tends to use a lot of techniques that involve using the centerline. For example someone may throw a punch at your head, you'll move the top of your body out of the way just barely, then do the appropriate footwork such as stepping in to the inside of their leading knee with your own knee, or stepping behind their leading leg.

Both of these footwork positions leave you in perfect position to perform a throwing technique, because they put the opponent off balance in relation to your stance. I won't go into the details of what you need to do with your arms to get the throw going. The footwork is what's important.

As for ukemi being similar to Aikido, yes this is true to an extent. However, in ninpo taijutsu, our ukemi tend to be MUCH quieter and softer than in aikido or judo. I don't think I would want to try a sideways roll on concrete from aikido. I'd probably break myself.

I live in Rockville MD, and i was wondering where to find a legitimate Ninjitsu school near me which teaches both the armed/unarmed fighting techniques and the stealth, climbing, etc. techniques. If anyone has any info about a school locator site/an actual school, please post.

Use the search function, and make sure to google for Bujinkan, Genbukan or Jinenkan, in Maryland. I believe Jinenkan made its US headquarters in Maryland. There should be several Genbukan dojos there as well.

Please spell it ninjUtsu, or ninpo, and forget about stealth and all that other nonsense. If you start talking about climbing trees and such, the instructors will laugh at you. You will learn it on your own and as a part of your regular training. If you really want to be stealthy just practice it by yourself at home. You don't need to be taught ninja techniques to be very stealthy. Besides, ninja techniques won't make a noisy person quiet anyways.


Also, the post at the beginning of this page which sort of attacked Shoto Tanemura's credentials is bogus. Go watch a video of him. I've seen the scrolls, he is everything he claims to be.

[This message has been edited by paradoxbox (edited 04-24-2005).]

for a laugh:

http://www.geocities.com/what_dayaknow/ninpo.jpg



[This message has been edited by Kintama (edited 04-27-2005).]

Isn't that a page from one of Ashida Kim's books? He's a well known fraud. Much worse than the current XMA craze.

the way you guys put it, it sounds like ninjutsu is an MA I'd like, I'm fairly sneaky, I like throwing things [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/tongue.gif[/IMG], I wouldn't mind learning how to handle weapons, I wouldn't mind using those funny tricks and mind tricks, and I'm rather into the whole concept of a mental battle rather then all out slugfest that I see from UFC MA's, and most likely, from non UFC people too [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/tongue.gif[/IMG]

stop makeing post like this. Ninpo is rare becuase its an extremly hard art,if it was ez every one would do it and they might as well just call it karate.true Ninjutsu is one of the most if not the most versitaile and the most well rounded art out there.So stick that in your pipe and smoke it you Ninpo bashing S.O.B's.
and to every one whos not a **** have a great day [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

thanx wesd

How can laf 7773 say that master kim is a fraud?
He should feel deeply ashamed for having said that...
.
.

...which is absolutely true of course. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

Kim`s one of that guys who make it so difficult for us serious practioners of "NinjUtsu" to get acknowledged as martial artists.

I do like to talk with people who do not train in our art but are interested and maybe have an opinion or certain thoughts about this art. But I`m complaining -as we do so often- about people taking something they have heard (from somebody who took just a few lessons for example) as serious as if it was the one and only unbreakable law.
Who would like to be treated in a question of life & death by a doctor who just started to study medicine three weeks ago?
Why is it so different with everything concerning "ninjutsu" and related topics?

Even if someone trains in the art, you may sometimes get wrong informations, but from a person not involved in our art you`ll get much more of such "information".
In such a situation it would`ve been better not to ask at all as it`s easier to get an unknowing person informed than an already prejudiced one.

People who use search machines on the internet to get informations about Ninjutsu should be aware, that there are a lott of good sites but also many bad ones.
In most cases sites that claim to be of Bujinkan, Genbukan or Jinenkan are relatively trustworthy
-but still use your brain to not get trapped by some "strange ideas".

Someone wrote about "stupid low stances".
I don´t want to go to far into the details and actually I don`t know the circumstances in which the person had to perform the stances.
One of the things we learn in the Bujinkan (at least here in germany) is to perform everything with large and extended movements.
This helps the student to feel how his body behaves , where to put special attention on in a movement etc.
As he grasps the principle and reasons for his movements better by doing so (especially if he`s new to the art), he can more easily apply the principles in his movements as they become smaller and smaller
-with not loosing 50% of power by decreasing the movement by 50% for example.
The smaller movements are often the more realistic ones but they are the more difficult ones also
-therefore it`s absolutely necessary to "know" what to do and how.

Greetings from Berlin, Wilf

I myself do not train directly under a trainer in Ninjutsu, but I do research ninjas a lot. I have learned to live my life like they did, and I practice ninja techniques, not neccessarily Ninjutsu, but bits and pieces from it. Mainly things people would consider useless, like stealth walking, which I am guessing is the "dumb low stance" people are referring to, even though I find that stance very useful. There is more to Ninjutsu than meets the eye, and I sadly do not know as much I wish I knew. I think people ignore Ninjutsu because they view it as a useless art, and their only view of ninjas is the horribly slaughtered role they have in Hollywood. I for one am for the idea of a forum designed specifically for Ninjutsu. I can't tell you much mr vigerous, other than if I had a choice, I would be practicing Ninjutsu, not Tae Kwon Do. As to if there are still real ninjas left,not now, but give me a few more years of study.....

Sorry folks. That line about "living my life the way they did" sounded down right idiotic, and I wish to formally retract that statement. I agree with the rest I posted, but that one line should be ignored. Thank you and a thousand apologies!

*hangs head low*

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ninj kazi:
Sorry folks. That line about "living my life the way they did" sounded down right idiotic, and I wish to formally retract that statement. I agree with the rest I posted, but that one line should be ignored. Thank you and a thousand apologies![/QUOTE]

Very noble act. I'm glad you pointed it out before somebody else did.

As a side note, you could have also used the "edit" button, but this was almost better.

Joel

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MrVigerous:
Out of respect for all Arts and to make up for what has been seen by some as my unprovoked slandering of ninjitsu, here is an invitation. Would any genuine ninjitsu practitioners please get a post rolling (either in reply to this or on a fresh post) regrading the Art, its principles, etc. I'm sure we can all learn something from a genuine practitioner.

Regds
Mr V[/QUOTE]

so much respect you dont even take the time to learn to spell it right?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MrVigerous:
Out of respect for all Arts and to make up for what has been seen by some as my unprovoked slandering of ninjitsu, here is an invitation. Would any genuine ninjitsu practitioners please get a post rolling (either in reply to this or on a fresh post) regrading the Art, its principles, etc. I'm sure we can all learn something from a genuine practitioner.

Regds
Mr V[/QUOTE]

so much respect you dont even take the time to learn to spell it right?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by wesd:
so much respect you dont even take the time to learn to spell it right?[/QUOTE]

yeah, we heard you the first time.

according to this place: http://ninjitsu.gungfu.com/
and here: http://www.skhquest.com
it's spelled correctly.

This is taken from http://www.skhquest.com/.

[QUOTE] Quote taken from skhquest.com: CLARIFICATION NOTE: There is mild controversy over the written English for the Japanese word jutsu. Some prefer the awkward jitsu, an inaccurate rendering, though there is no such thing as spelling in Japanese. The incorrect "ninjitsu" is most often used by American "ninja" who have never studied ninja martial arts in Japan. The Japanese language jitsu (pronounced "jeetsu" as in "Jeep") is translated as "truth" or "to become ripe" or "fruit". Therefore, the word "ninjitsu" would have to be translated as something like the "fruit of stealth".[/QUOTE]
http://www.skhquest.com/articles/japaneselanguage.aspx

NinjItsu is incorrect. NinjUtsu is the correct spelling, again.

The other site you offered is riddled with inaccuracies and is hardly a valid source for information on ninjutsu. Might as well have been written by Frank Dux.

[This message has been edited by laf7773 (edited 04-28-2005).]

looks like you 'stole the peach' on this one! good work.