Martial Arts vs. Guns

Student: What do you do if someone pulls a gun on you?

Teacher: Cooperate, and try not to get shot.

Student: But what disarming techniques would you use?

Teacher: None. That will just get somebody shot, and it will probably be me.

Student: So there are no techniques that can be used against an attacker armed with a gun?

Teacher: Yes, there are plenty.

Student: Do you know any?

Teacher: Yes.

Student: Will you teach some of them to me?

Teacher: No. It's dangerous to think that you can disarm someone with a gun. If you try a technique you have a good chance of getting shot. It's best to simply cooperate and try to de-escalate the situation.

Student: Will you ever teach me the techniques to disarm someone with a gun?

Teacher: Yes, when you are experienced enough not to use them.


I personally make a distinction between the techniques that I know purely for the sake of learning an art form, and those that are not going to get me killed or beat up in an actual confrontation.

A lot of martial arts have techniques that can be used against someone armed with a gun. Do you feel that these are useful self defense techniques, or are they dangerous to try in a real life and death situation?

--Dallas

Well the techniques are good but only if they are close range. Those techniques are only use if its a life or death situation. Thats what I think. Plz don't hate........

From the guy in red..............

*Inuyasha*

Gun defence is almost impossible, but your only chance is literally a few yards away.

Any further than that, and your attacker would have to be a retard to get caught by you. And if you are close, and you do try something, you better get it right....


Mark.

Bang > Hiya

In my opinion when you have to defense yourselve against a weapon it another whole story. With Knife you are lucky if you get a second chance, if you miss a block.

With Gun, I might be wrong, but you only get One chance only if you mess up with whatever technique you were doing, I must said are you done man. Most of the technique that I learn are only effective if the opponents are close enough for me to grab their guns. It take a lots....of practice to become profiency at at.

Not only that, most of us don't practice enough of Gun disarming, because most martial arts school spend alot of time on Kata, combination, punch, kick, bags, Lines drill. Most martial arts school barely talk about or teach a students how to defends against gun attack, at not least at my school that how it was. We learn alot how to defend again knife, bat, club, stuff like that , but not to much on gun. The only time I have a chance to learn gun defend is when one of the Sensei who work for Law enforcement come and teach, he is the only that teach gun disarming techniques to me. Out of 25 senior black belt 5 degree and up that the only Sensei that teach me.

Try to avoid this type of situation as much as possible. Unless it is a life and death situation then it a different story.

In fact try to avoid as much fight as possible.

taichi

originally posted by StayUnderMyWing:

[QUOTE]Gun defence is almost impossible, but your only chance is literally a few yards away.[/QUOTE]

You are a braver man than I. Personally, the weapon would need to be within an arm's length for me to try anything.

Agree with you about getting it right, though!

[This message has been edited by MattJ (edited 01-16-2005).]

I actually know someone who was robbed recently. He cooperated and they shot him anyway.

It's stupid to think that martial arts can defeat guns. Kinda like the Boxer rebellion. Cooperate as much as possible. It's a sick world.

If you have reason to believe he's gonna pull the trigger anyways, what have you got to lose?

[This message has been edited by Jay (edited 01-16-2005).]

Guns are for pussies.

'Nuff Said.


Cooperate until you can't anymore
-s.o.b.

I'd agree with several posters about this subject, the gun would have to be at my chest, my back, the back of my head or pretty damn close and I'd have to think the assailant was definately gonna pull the trigger before I'd attempt to disarm him. Cooperate and walk away if you think you could. If you think you'd get shot even after cooperating, then go for it, but you better get it right the first time. None of us knows what the circumstances would dictate and hopefully, none of us will.
I study Shaolin Kempo Karate and we've done many classes on gun techniques. Even after countless drills and tons of practicing technique, I still say cooperate and walk away if you can.

I definitely would not try to take a gun except as a last resort.You are taking a chance either way because only the asailent knows his intentions.I train with two police officers and we practice unarming techniques, but like I said they do not reccomend it.If they have a gun I hope I have mine too [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]
All American Goju Karate

you must also consider the possibility of getting someone other than yourself shot in the process. because one way or another, as soon as you move that gun is going to go off, even if its just reflex action by the attacker.
my teacher always told me that if some guy points a gun at you and wants your wallet...give him your wallet. i agree. why risk it if you don't have to?
chances are if he wanted to kill you, and take your money, he would have killed you and taken your money. if he points a gun at you and threatens you, chances are he isnt really interested in harming you...he just needs a fix or something.
i agree that for a disarm to really work the gun MUST be within arms reach. a distraction is also very helpful(like handing him your wallet maybe?). at any rate i think the most important thing about these techniques is controlling the muzzle of the gun..because that is where the bullets come out

[This message has been edited by kempo_jujitsu (edited 01-17-2005).]

sorry to come out that way but i feel that gun disarms are kind of useless

i mean what are the odds of somebody holding a gun at point blank with the intent of killing me?

i dont sell drugs, i dont hang out with drugs dealers, i dont have sex with married women i never had a gun pointed at me and hope that i never will.

and besides if your opponent really wanted to kill you he'd shoot you before you knew what was coming not talk with you at point blank range.

do you guys also train to sleep with your eyes open in case some psychopatic maniac slips into your house at night with a battle axe? hey it happens!

rideonlythelabel:

You don't have to hang out with drug dealers or have sex with another man's wife to get shot. I live 35 minutes away from a city in which people are shot very regularly, and not necessarily because they are criminals. I don't go there often, but on occasion I do, and the possibility does exist. Honestly your post strikes me as rather naive in terms of violence that occurs every day.

In terms of using a gun defense there are several things: first, awareness is always the best option. That may fail for any number of reasons though, especially if the person using the gun knows what s/he is doing, in which case s/he will not let you know of the intention to attack first.

Second, using said gun defense is a matter of last resort (as martial arts should be), because it IS a matter of life and death, and not ego as to who can "fight" better.

Third, you have to be close enough to the attacker that you can move completely surprising this person. If you give any form of intention to defend yourself this person will shoot.

Fourth, when a person confronts you with whatever weapon (or unarmed) you must assume that person intends to back up the threat with actual force. The reason, if any, that the person hasn't attacked already is that it is easier in many cases to intimidate, but that doesn't mean the person wouldn't shoot/stab/fight you just as easily.

I have never personally had to deal with an armed attacker (thankfully), but I've had one friend killed by being shot, others stabbed, and another witness a shooting outside his house. I agree with the first post wholeheartedly in saying that the person should only learn something like that when they know not to use it. It is common sense.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tengu51:
rideonlythelabel:

You don't have to hang out with drug dealers or have sex with another man's wife to get shot. I live 35 minutes away from a city in which people are shot very regularly, and not necessarily because they are criminals. I don't go there often, but on occasion I do, and the possibility does exist. Honestly your post strikes me as rather naive in terms of violence that occurs every day.

[/QUOTE]

not saying that it can't happen... just that it's not very likely. the odds that gun disarms will actually save your life are IMO, close to non-existent.


lets look at it that way...

first there has to be somebody that wants to kill you and he has a gun. (not very likely)

then he has to decide that he wont shoot you at soon as he has a chance (he probably will if he really wants to kill you)

then he has to be a total idiot and come to talk with you at point blank range (we all know lots of people are stupid but...)

and then you have to somehow guess that he really is going to kill you (how do you know for sure? aren't you better off not trying the disarm and chancing that he isnt really going to kill you?)

and finally you have to pull the disarm itself off.

you will admit that there isn't much chance of a disarm saving your life.