martial sport

Posted by: skinters

martial sport - 06/05/08 08:21 AM

Although I have no personal interest in martial art as a sport and respect those who do i can’t help but feel martial art in general as been turned into a process of acquiring belts and certificates. Also the way the young people are brought into it in the way its all about the act of winners and losers with a trophy at the end for those who do win and maybe a feeling of failure for those who don’t.
Martial sport seeks material affirmation of their worth as a martial artist which might include bigger muscles acquiring as many trophy’s as possible wearing the most elaborate clothing and breaking the most boards.
This tends to in my eyes build a false sense of worth and bring a overestimation of the martial artists abilities.experience in street fighting shows the barbarity of real fighting and wipes out this illusion .

I could go on let me know what you think yourself on this .


Cheer all

Jase.
Posted by: Supremor

Re: martial sport - 06/05/08 11:04 AM

I disagree completely with the idea that sport is associated purely with acquiring belts, certificates and trophies. Sure, these things can be a great incentive and can often be used as a good predicter of skill; but sport is so much more than just winning.

I simply cannot understand why martial artists think what they do is so much better than what every other sportsman, or even hobbyist, does. The dedication that Kobe Bryant, or Christiano Ronaldo or Roger Federer show to their sports is just as great, if not greater, than any martial arts master. I knew a Basketball player who was so dedicated to his sport that he even practiced on Christmas Day.

In short, don't blame sport. Sport is a fantastic way of developing skill, instilling discipline and improving oneself. These things that you claim are the consequences of sport influencing MA, are in fact simply bad instruction and greedy consumerism.

Quote:

This tends to in my eyes build a false sense of worth and bring a overestimation of the martial artists abilities.experience in street fighting shows the barbarity of real fighting and wipes out this illusion .



Depends what the rules of the martial sport are. I have no doubt that many of today's MMAists have a much better chance of surviving an attack than most MAists training for self defense.

Indeed in my experience, some of the people who attack martial sport as not being useful in self defense, are simply those who lose when doing it. If you can't throw me in a judo match, and you can't KO me in a boxing match, what makes you think that "on the street," things will be so much different? Sometimes the delusion is not with the sportsmen.
Posted by: MattJ

Re: martial sport - 06/05/08 11:11 AM

Well said, Freddie.
Posted by: everyone

Re: martial sport - 06/05/08 01:49 PM

We all have our own reasons for being involved with the martial arts. But I think it is safe to say that we all do it because we enjoy it.

I don't know if all the distractions like belts and trophies take away from the ultimate goal of being a capable street fighter (if that really is the ultimate goal). As long as the person is having fun, it's no worse then playing tennis. As far as a false sense of security goes, we all have that; Until something happens to wake us up from this dillusion.

In MA, there is such a wide range of pursuits and no set heirarchy of importance.

I think part of the appeal of belts, trophies, board breaking etc.. is that there is a measurable result. If you only train for self defense, how do you set goals for your training? Setting and attaining goals will improve performance.

Anyway, some random thoughts on the subject.
Posted by: TKD-Skippi

Re: martial sport - 06/05/08 09:24 PM


I Find grades and belts in a structured curriculum a great way to learn. If someone is able to smash a pine board with there bear hand without hurting themselves imagine what they could do to a face. someone who is a master of traditional MA and has never fought in a street brawl would get just as big a shock.
Posted by: Dereck

Re: martial sport - 06/06/08 12:35 PM

Sport has positives and negatives. If all you are training for is the sport side and realize this then good for you. If you only do sport and think you are getting the whole picture then it sucks for you as you will be missing lots. However sport is an excellent way of using your skills and testing them against other resisting people. Take grappling for instance, how else do you see if techniques work other then to roll with an opponent; and the best opponents are not the ones you train with all of the time as you get a sort of "feel" for those people and they are not out to injury, submit or beat you.

As for belts, the same things; good and bad. But that has been discussed in great lengths already and won't go there.
Posted by: BrianS

Re: martial sport - 06/06/08 12:52 PM

People don't 'smash' pine boards, they break them on the grain. It doesn't take any ma skill to do it either. Anyone can break pine boards with a simple understanding of physics.

just sayin'.....
Posted by: matxtx

Re: martial sport - 06/06/08 05:26 PM

If you neglect the sport world then as an martial artist or athlete you will get left behind.Way behind IMO.

Mechanical, physical, and biochemical workings of the human body is what internal martial arts is.The people at the front of this field are researching it and apply it to different areas of sports to raise the game for an athlete.Trying to get that millisecond off the hundred metres for example.
How to train to or use the body to get the best as an all round martial artist against a skilled opponent trying to put you out?
The MMA sports experimenters and researchers are at the front of the field.And other sports that use similar attributes can be an influence.

There is so much development in one hundred years or even fifty,twenty,ten years that to me its crazy to try to do things the same as years ago still.
There are things that some dont even know they dont know about because they neglect the sports side and its positives IMO.
We can go further down into the cells and molecules of the human body than ever before.Deeper into the brain and how timing works.etc etc.All sorts.
Being influenced but still keeping a TMA elememt would even be better than neglecting the progressions made..IMO

I can see your point if you talking spirituality and progressing as a human but anyone can be an idiot so itts not down to a style of martial arts.Personaly I get that from other areas of life anyway and dont need martial arts for that.Although a plus side is it can help development.
Posted by: skinters

Re: martial sport - 06/06/08 07:18 PM

after reading these posts,im trying to understand why i feel
this way about it and i suspect im in the minority haha.

i can see aswell maybe a slight bias in as such if you practice your martial art as a sport,in its defence your going to be very pro martial sport,in the same way i have my own reservations about it.i also have complete respect for those who follow they art through sport and can understand it.

i do look at martial art as purely an extension of my life, in as such id never turn my life into a sport,of wich training in the martial art is so much a part of.

jase.
Posted by: jeff_andle

Re: martial sport - 06/06/08 08:52 PM

Quote:

People don't 'smash' pine boards, they break them on the grain. It doesn't take any ma skill to do it either. Anyone can break pine boards with a simple understanding of physics.

just sayin'.....



Brian, I can derive the equations for a three-bank, four-ball pool shot but my odds are better blindfolded! It takes some kind of skill, MA or other to hit the board (of a challenging thickness) with snap and precision.
Posted by: BrianS

Re: martial sport - 06/06/08 08:57 PM

I can teach someone(and have) how to do it in just a few minutes without any ma training whatsoever.
Breaking boards has nothing to do with martial arts imo,but it is fun to do.
Once a year or so I'll get some 2x12x12' boards from a hardware store and cut them up into 10 or so pieces. I'll also get some patio blocks or some kind of stone and we will break them for a demo, promotion, or just for fun.