How do martial arts improve ur fighting ability?
Posted by: Emotionless
How do martial arts improve ur fighting ability? - 05/11/08 05:12 AM
I've trained partially in some martial arts like karate. But anytime I get into a real fight, I find myself relying totally on my fighting instincts not on technique. I've not really seen any change in my fighting manner...maybe I should just give up on fighting styles and improve my speed and strength.
Posted by: General_Neo
Re: How do martial arts improve ur fighting abilit - 05/11/08 06:40 AM
or8...are you being serious?
You say you have to rely on your own instincts in a fight and are asking if MA improve your fighting ability as it hasnt for you...
well, i think if you studied longer not "partially" you would realise the answer to the question..
take care,
Neo
Posted by: The_Master
Re: How do martial arts improve ur fighting abilit - 05/11/08 07:10 AM
i remember i used to be really bad at fighting but i got much better just by WATCHING Martial Arts being performed. You have not engaged yourself fully and are in the situation, doing what is natural for you, once u do MA more, that will become your natural fighting. So just engage yourself.
Posted by: JKogas
Re: How do martial arts improve ur fighting abilit - 05/11/08 08:59 AM
Damn....
Posted by: jeff_andle
Re: How do martial arts improve ur fighting abilit - 05/11/08 09:36 AM
Quote:
Damn....
arm chair martial arts instructors and begionners not yet conquering their instincts...
seriously though, i haven't been IN a fight outside the ring since I started MA. i joke that I study self defense so that I can defend myself without doing excessive damage to an attacker.
Posted by: JKogas
Re: How do martial arts improve ur fighting abilit - 05/11/08 09:52 AM
"How do martial arts improve ur (yer, your) fighting ability", is an interesting question though.
On one hand, you would think that it would be a matter of simple common sense. On the other, you realize that good sense isn't something very common.
With that in mind I would answer as follows: Practice. Yep, that's it. Practice something long enough and you eventually become better at it.
Here's the tricky part though....if you want to really develop fighting ability, you have to practice fighting and not just "martial arts". Sure they can be one and the same, but aren't
always.
In other words, you have to develop your fighting ability against people who are fighting back....just like people do in real fights.
Do that long enough and you get better. It's that simple.
Wasn't that easy?
Posted by: student_of_life
Re: How do martial arts improve ur fighting abilit - 05/11/08 10:12 AM
can you teach me how to skydive?
and thats bad advice, don't listen to that. its also a bad question, no one in the right mind will teach you how to be a better fighter. if you want to learn how to protect yourself, that can happen. but if your looking for fights, your the kind of jerk that real people learn to protect themselves from.
Posted by: WhiteDragon11
Re: How do martial arts improve ur fighting abilit - 05/11/08 10:43 AM
If you practice/study long enough in martial arts and develop technique, those bad instincts you find that get you screwed will end up being those good techniques you practiced over and over again. Training partially is not good enough to get those techniques used in a fight. You have to use them OVER AND OVER AGAIN, even spar with them. Once they are a part of your muscle memory, they can actually be used in a fight.
Posted by: creative
Re: How do martial arts improve ur fighting abilit - 05/11/08 12:40 PM
Quote:
You have to use them OVER AND OVER AGAIN, even spar with them
That's a bit extreme. Actual sparring with martial arts techniques? Can't see it catching on.
Posted by: jude33
Re: How do martial arts improve ur fighting ability? - 05/11/08 05:41 PM
Quote:
I've trained partially in some martial arts like karate. But anytime I get into a real fight, I find myself relying totally on my fighting instincts not on technique. I've not really seen any change in my fighting manner...maybe I should just give up on fighting styles and improve my speed and strength.
Instincts to me are someones natural way of defending themselves.
Technique combined with the correct fighting instinct is what should happen in s/d situation.
Technique requires a lot of repetition.
And why fights? Shouldnt that be self defence?
S/D = technique , Strength , power, fitness. speed , conditioning.etc
Posted by: WhiteDragon11
Re: How do martial arts improve ur fighting abilit - 05/11/08 05:49 PM
Creative-
What are you talking about?
"Actual sparring with martial arts techniques? Can't see it catching on."
Sorry I dont understand what you are trying to say. One of the advantages of sparring is that you get the opportunity to try your techniques without being in a real fight. You should practice the techniques on an opponent before having to defend yourself.
"A bit extreme" -not really
It takes tons of repetitions to get the technique to become a part of your muscle memory. Why do you think you do forms/katas, or kick a bag?
Posted by: jeff_andle
Re: How do martial arts improve ur fighting ability? - 05/11/08 06:12 PM
Quote:
I've trained partially in some martial arts like karate. But anytime I get into a real fight, I find myself relying totally on my fighting instincts not on technique. I've not really seen any change in my fighting manner...maybe I should just give up on fighting styles and improve my speed and strength.
Allow me to paraphrase this in a non-MA context.
I took a college class in psychology (I'm an engineer, it was for a humanities requirement). i thought I could use that stuff in PY1 (PSY-101 in the modern numbering scheme) to help win arguements.\
Sure enough every time I argued I'd use the same old tactics. That class did nothing for me.
Now...
was that because the class was useless, because I had no intention of changing my behavior, or because I just didn't stick with it long enough and build a foundation in the discipline?
Hint: after 8 years of college in my preferred course of study and almost 30 years of practice, fields and waves dance to my beckoning and materials ask me what I want them to do. I still use the same 20+ year old argument tactics sometimes but at least I know the point of the discipline was avoiding the arguments! My money is on the foundation...
Posted by: BrianS
Re: How do martial arts improve ur fighting ability? - 05/11/08 11:56 PM
Quote:
I've trained partially in some martial arts like karate. But anytime I get into a real fight, I find myself relying totally on my fighting instincts not on technique. I've not really seen any change in my fighting manner...maybe I should just give up on fighting styles and improve my speed and strength.
You trained "partially" in "some martial arts like karate."
You don't even know what you trained or how long you trained it? 
Read a book and watch ufc, that should help. 
Posted by: GriffyGriff
Re: How do martial arts improve ur fighting ability? - 05/12/08 12:37 AM
Quote:
I've trained partially in some martial arts like karate. But anytime I get into a real fight, I find myself relying totally on my fighting instincts not on technique. I've not really seen any change in my fighting manner...maybe I should just give up on fighting styles and improve my speed and strength.
Try holding down R2 & L1 then press:
Circle + Square, X, X
Posted by: The_Master
Re: How do martial arts improve ur fighting ability? - 05/12/08 02:00 AM
student, was that insult directed at me?
Posted by: Zombie Zero
Re: How do martial arts improve ur fighting ability? - 05/12/08 10:19 AM
Emotionless,
What's going on in your life, that you're getting into so many fights?
Some quiet personal introspection may be in order.
Posted by: VDJ
Re: How do martial arts improve ur fighting abilit - 05/12/08 12:18 PM
Quote:
i remember i used to be really bad at fighting but i got much better just by WATCHING Martial Arts being performed. You have not engaged yourself fully and are in the situation, doing what is natural for you, once u do MA more, that will become your natural fighting. So just engage yourself.
You're kidding,right? Please change your board name because after reading some of your posts its obvious you haven't a clue what it takes to "Master" an art!
VDJ
Posted by: Emotionless
Re: How do martial arts improve ur fighting abilit - 05/12/08 01:24 PM
Zombie zero I don't frequently enter fights...but sometimes fighting is inevitable cause dere are some people who just like stirring up trouble.
I personally dont really believe in taking over 3 years just to learn how to defend yourself...thats what martial arts imply.
The truth is that even though I rely on my instincts, I dont lose too often, in fact I rarely lose. I was just wondering why I would spend time learning so many punch and kick techniques only not to use them when it matters most. It makes all the time I spent a waste.
Posted by: MattJ
Re: How do martial arts improve ur fighting abilit - 05/12/08 01:43 PM
What is the point of this thread? If you are so friggin' awesome at fighting, then you DON'T need martial arts. Not everyone else is so gifted.
Posted by: butterfly
Re: How do martial arts improve ur fighting abilit - 05/12/08 01:48 PM
Eee-gad, I was going to ignore this question, but felt compelled to write. John said it best, but most folk are saying similar things.
Fighting will teach you to fight. Not all martial arts are established for this or predicated on the idea of fighting. But with that said, there are martial arts that have a steep heirarchy that will bring you closer to "real" fighting and allow you to learn from the experience, without the experience being all there is and ruminating on this as the "be all" to physical confrontation. MMA is as close to real fighting as I have seen.
And to go back to your original question about fighting, let me ask (and answer) a couple: How do you fight several guys with knives or guns? How do acquire the awareness to not enter a situation that might bring this conflict to a head on collision with you? The answers are don't fight if you don't have to. If it's not worth dying for, it's probably not worth fighting for.
Real fights aren't a couple of guys arguing and pushing each other waiting for one to throw a punch or try to tackle the other. Real fights have injuries and stabbings and are violent encounters that you probably had no want or realization that this kind of violence is going to be aimed at you.
So pick your poison. MAs can help with strength, tactics, awareness, and perhaps more important...give one an idea of an individual's limitations rather than some hyped up idea of capabilities that are not grounded in reality.
Posted by: Zombie Zero
Re: How do martial arts improve ur fighting abilit - 05/12/08 01:48 PM
Quote:
Zombie zero I don't frequently enter fights...but sometimes fighting is inevitable cause dere are some people who just like stirring up trouble.
I personally dont really believe in taking over 3 years just to learn how to defend yourself...thats what martial arts imply.
The truth is that even though I rely on my instincts, I dont lose too often, in fact I rarely lose. I was just wondering why I would spend time learning so many punch and kick techniques only not to use them when it matters most. It makes all the time I spent a waste.
:facepalm:
Posted by: JasonM
Re: How do martial arts improve ur fighting abilit - 05/12/08 02:53 PM
I think butterfly's post say it perfectly.
Posted by: Ironfoot
Re: How do martial arts improve ur fighting abilit - 05/12/08 03:57 PM
"Rely on instincts"? I've seen my 3 year old granddaughter fight - obiviously on instincts - and I'm not impressed.
Like was said, practice until what you've studied is instinct. It may take awhile, but it's worth it. And "working on speed and strength"? That will come with the repetition of the proper techniques, too.
Posted by: GriffyGriff
Re: How do martial arts improve ur fighting abilit - 05/12/08 08:27 PM
Quote:
Zombie zero I don't frequently enter fights...but sometimes fighting is inevitable cause dere are some people who just like stirring up trouble.
I personally dont really believe in taking over 3 years just to learn how to defend yourself...thats what martial arts imply.
The truth is that even though I rely on my instincts, I dont lose too often, in fact I rarely lose. I was just wondering why I would spend time learning so many punch and kick techniques only not to use them when it matters most. It makes all the time I spent a waste.
Dude, With respect....
If you rely on your (finely tuned) instincts.....
Why are you asking for Advice?
(Lemmings also have instincts, but not all of them should be followed).
Posted by: student_of_life
Re: How do martial arts improve ur fighting abilit - 05/12/08 08:49 PM
"Lemmings also have instincts, but not all of them should be followed"
you are fast becoming my favorite poster in this forum for things like this.
Posted by: jeff_andle
Re: How do martial arts improve ur fighting abilit - 05/13/08 12:44 AM
no kidding student. I busted a gut on that one.
Posted by: BrianS
Re: How do martial arts improve ur fighting abilit - 05/13/08 12:58 AM
Three birds sitting on a fence.
First bird says, "my instincts tell me to go east."
Second bird says, "my instincts tell me to go west."
Third bird says," my instincts too,but it doesn't tell me which way to go."
Posted by: Emotionless
Re: How do martial arts improve ur fighting abilit - 05/13/08 01:32 AM
Thanks for all the advice. And GriffyGriff its not as if I'm perfect...I dont even enter fights too often and I lose like anyone else but not too much. I think I'll devote more time into training.
Posted by: trevek
Re: How do martial arts improve ur fighting abilit - 05/13/08 05:10 AM
Emo,
Perhaps you are good at fighting, perhaps you have a natural ferocity and killer instinct which gets you through. Perhaps the other guys can't match it. However, some day you might need something extra, some different tactic, some different technique... or you might meet the guy who can easily handle your style of fighting.
What studying an MA does is give you new ideas, new approaches and techniques. It also teaches you control. It can teach you how to understand and deal with tchniques you might never have dreamed of (particularly where grappling is concerned). Look at all the highly accomplished fighters who looked like rag-dolls when they first met BJJ and ground fighting.
I've known guys who were fierce and hard. With limited techniques they could and would do the job but they wanted to learn MA for other reasons. They wanted to learn how to step back, how to choose the time and place and technique and... if possible, to control it without fighting.
I'm not a fighter. I've never had the kind of ferocity or instinct some of my friends have/had. I was in the army for 3 years and I've studied MA for over 15 years. Interesting thing is that some of my friends were always amazed that going some of the places I've been and doing some of the jobs I did that I was hardly ever in a fight (touchwood).
Posted by: GriffyGriff
Re: How do martial arts improve ur fighting abilit - 05/13/08 05:54 AM
Trev,
Nice post. ... really... very kind post.
Funny isn't it, the More you train for fighting, the less you actually get in a fight.
I think it is down to an unconcious energy that training HONESTLY, training EFFECTIVELY and training RELIGIOUSLY produces.
Posted by: trevek
Re: How do martial arts improve ur fighting abilit - 05/13/08 05:58 AM
Thanks Griff.
I think it also down to being a bit calmer and expending the nervous energy in the club. That can allow you to approach a situation with a clearer viewpoint.
Posted by: Emotionless
Re: How do martial arts improve ur fighting abilit - 05/13/08 08:30 AM
Thanks trev, I've learnt so many things from this thread.
Posted by: trevek
Re: How do martial arts improve ur fighting abilit - 05/13/08 08:50 AM
your welcome, emo.
Posted by: Taison
Re: How do martial arts improve ur fighting abilit - 05/14/08 02:58 AM
Emo,
Just wanted to share some things that I've experience in my life regarding untrained brawlers;
Most heavy-handed people I've sparred with were telegraphing from miles away. Most clinch-biased brawlers did not have ANY idea of kuzushi and most kick-happy fighters lost balance more times than you can count seconds in a minute.
Now why is that? Instincts? Were they living in a dream?
Instincts aren't there to teach you how to dispatch opponents, it's there to protect you from harm and most of the time it usually gets you injured (believe it or not). For example, when I throw new students instead of doing ukemi, they'll put their hands on the ground in an effort to break their fall and if unlucky can seriously injure their elbows and the shoulder joint.
What did MA give me? Techniques? Yes. Timing? Yes. Experience? Yes.
Just everything you CAN'T gain from NOT training under any system.
Nothing can replace drilling a technique thousand times over until it becomes natural.
One of Bruce Lee's arguments for conditioning is that the body CANNOT perform idealy if the body isn't shaped for self-defense. It's like having an unsharp knife and trying to cut through a jungle.
The body is like a weapon. You're born unsharpened and more or less useless if you were to be used as a 'fighting machine'. Hence training. You need to be reprogrammed, and how do you do that? Training. Hundred, thousands of hours put into drilling techniques, conditioning your body for that one function.
Some people are born as a 'natural athlete', they have an ease for movement but do not mistake them for 'natural fighters'. The only advantage they've got is their ease of movement and thus it would seem they are proficient fighters. Although they have the 'potentials' of becoming a fighter they are not 'born' to fight.
The only way you can become better at 'fighting' is by undergoing the activity. BL said in order to become a better fighter, you need to fight.
Nothing can substitute actual experience, even if artificial (MMA training) but if you think 'natural athletes' are born fighters then you are wrong.
Trust me; if I could, I'd rather be an arm-chair MA but I can't hence the hard training I have to undergo on a daily basis. It's a passion.
If you are discussing instincts as a human being it would also depend on personality type. Some are 'alpha dogs', some are just born to be 'underlings'. But most often than not, your instincts should tell you to avoid danger but by putting yourself into a 'fight' you're actually screwing up your mind more often than not. Your instincts is trying to guide you out of a fight, but you insist on being in the fight. No one is born with a '5th dan kyokushin black belt' programmed into their self.
What's my instincts? I don't know because I only do as I was trained.
Consider what I've said or just let it pass by.
-Taison out
Posted by: The_Master
Re: How do martial arts improve ur fighting abilit - 05/14/08 04:18 AM
MA doesn't teach you how to 'fight', it teaches you how to protect one's physical wellbeing, that's the best way i can say it.
Posted by: Cord
Re: How do martial arts improve ur fighting abilit - 05/14/08 04:38 AM
Quote:
MA doesn't teach you how to 'fight', it teaches you how to protect one's physical wellbeing, that's the best way i can say it.
HOW DO YOU KNOW!!!???!!! The closest thing you have come to Martial training is watching a Jackie Chan movie.
Since you like martial philosophy so much, here is a nuggett just for you:
"Knowing is not enough; we must apply. Willing is not enough; we must do.". Bruce Lee.
Posted by: The_Master
Re: How do martial arts improve ur fighting abilit - 05/14/08 06:14 AM
i know that i will no longer say that MA teaches u to fight, it teaches you to protect one's physical wellbeing. FYI Jackie Chan is more a comedy actor than a Martial Artist.
Posted by: Cord
Re: How do martial arts improve ur fighting abilit - 05/14/08 06:20 AM
Quote:
i know that i will no longer say that MA teaches u to fight, it teaches you to protect one's physical wellbeing.
HOW DO YOU KNOW!?!?
Quote:
FYI Jackie Chan is more a comedy actor than a Martial Artist.
and that is why i used to him to point out your lack of knowledge on the subject, genius.
Posted by: The_Master
Re: How do martial arts improve ur fighting abilit - 05/14/08 06:35 AM
I KNOW, I JUST DO.
Posted by: Ives
Re: How do martial arts improve ur fighting abilit - 05/14/08 06:56 AM
Best one-liner ever!
Posted by: dandjurdjevic
Re: How do martial arts improve ur fighting ability? - 05/14/08 07:39 AM
Martial arts have improved my "fighting ability" significantly. They have done so by giving me a framework; some point of reference, some reflexive, yet productive responses.
I'm not sure if I would have said the same thing after 4 or 5 years of training. Maybe it takes a long time to inculcate techniques into your subconscious so that you don't rely purely on some primordial "instinct".
All I know is that my "instinctive" or "reflexive" responses have, demonstrably, become more constructive. I think it is similar to, say, a tennis pro who doesn't have to consciously think "I'll try a backhand down the line" or "this calls for a volley". The decisions are made subconsciously. However a beginner just madly stabs at the ball as best he or she can.
Some martial artists don't seem to connect what they do on the floor with how they spar/fight. IMHO this is either insufficient experience or it is incorrect training. Frankly martial arts training has made as much difference to my martial arts as 30 years of tennis coaching would have on a tennis player's tennis.
Posted by: VDJ
Re: How do martial arts improve ur fighting abilit - 05/14/08 08:10 AM
Quote:
I KNOW, I JUST DO.
This from the person who has made multiple posts out of ignorance and then retracted and apologized for those posts. NOT TO MENTION in this thread he has even posted that they learned from watching MA performed
VDJ
Posted by: jeff_andle
Re: How do martial arts improve ur fighting ability? - 05/14/08 08:15 AM
A person relying solely on instinct will react quickly with no time lost to thought. If there instincts are good, they succeed, if not... we evolve without them.
A person with some training will think about their response. This will slow them down. They will say the training ruined their fighting.
The person who is well trained will commit their training to instict. They will not stop reacting to think but their reactions will be premeditated and practiced technique honed to the point of instinct.
The truly experienced will not fight. With a look, their opponent will know better.
"The Master" really needs to stop opining foolishly until he knows something. Someday he'll have some experience and some wisdom and will be dreadfully ashamed of the thinks he's said. Till then, that's entertainment.
Posted by: Emotionless
Re: How do martial arts improve ur fighting ability? - 05/14/08 01:40 PM
WOW...this place has the most experienced and enlightened martial artists. I just discovered that I've been ignorant all this time. But which martial art can you guys really suggest or recommend as a good one? Cause I want to start learning one straight away!
Posted by: BrianS
Re: How do martial arts improve ur fighting ability? - 05/14/08 03:46 PM
Read....The...........Stickies.
Posted by: jude33
Re: How do martial arts improve ur fighting ability? - 05/15/08 04:46 PM
Quote:
WOW...this place has the most experienced and enlightened martial artists. I just discovered that I've been ignorant all this time. But which martial art can you guys really suggest or recommend as a good one? Cause I want to start learning one straight away!
Straight away?
You could always start doing press ups if it is that urgent.
Not strictly a martial art as such but they do help.
My thoughts on a few suggestions.
Look on you tube at different arts.
Read the stickies.
Look in your area what is available.
Decide that fighting other than competition is for losers
who need to prove their fragile ego's.
Meditate on that one.
The days of fighting for a mate arent realy rquired in this day and age and if that is what it takes then find another mate.
Ditto.
Post what your doing back on here when you have decided.
Post what your training consists of when you have decided.
Jude
Posted by: Emotionless
Re: How do martial arts improve ur fighting ability? - 05/20/08 02:50 PM
I've decided to take up Taekwondo.
The training consists of stretching and flexibility exercises, general exercises like pushup along with the taekwondo techniques.
Thanks...everything is going well.
Posted by: trevek
Re: How do martial arts improve ur fighting ability? - 05/21/08 03:38 PM
Great choice. Welcome aboard.
We'll see you on the TKD forum then?
Posted by: BrianS
Re: How do martial arts improve ur fighting ability? - 05/21/08 06:16 PM
Quote:
I've decided to take up Taekwondo.
The training consists of stretching and flexibility exercises, general exercises like pushup along with the taekwondo techniques.
Thanks...everything is going well.
I'm sorry to hear that.
Posted by: trevek
Re: How do martial arts improve ur fighting ability? - 05/23/08 03:43 AM
You'll be even sorrier when he TKD's your Goju butt!
Pay no attention, Emo... these karate guys are just jealous cos they can't do TKD.
Posted by: Ironfoot
Re: How do martial arts improve ur fighting ability? - 05/23/08 09:40 AM
trevek: Maybe Brian was saying he was sorry for TKD's sake, not Emo's.
Posted by: trevek
Re: How do martial arts improve ur fighting ability? - 05/23/08 09:46 AM