getting along in a very small dojo

Posted by: chofukainoa

getting along in a very small dojo - 04/02/08 01:28 AM

Does anyone have any good advice for when problems with other students makes training feel bad?

First, my dojo situation: it has three "branches" that meet at community gymnasiums in different areas, with only a handful of people in each branch. We can go to any of these branches, but are generally considered to be associated with one and its sensei. Our branch is relatively new, and besides sensei there is only one black belt and two browns in addition to the white belts.

Second, people: recently the black and brown belts in our branch have been unable to come to practice. Most of the other white belts don't come much and haven't made much progress. Almost every training session is me with a family of three: father, mother, and junior-high-school son.

They are nice enough people, but...the father can be pretty annoying--he laughs when other people do something wrong and continually tries to correct others incorrectly. I don't mind being corrected, but it's just confusing when it contradicts what sensei says. Plus, the father only started a few months before I did.

The mother is now pregnant and can't really do much.

The son is not really a challenge to do kumite with, and to make it worse he will sometimes basically fall asleep or totally lose concentration (look at the wall or ceiling) while sparring!

Lately training just isn't fun anymore, so I have been thinking of going to another branch once a week even though I like my sensei and it would be farther to travel. The people there are mostly black/brown belts and I get along with all of them. But I would basically have to make up a white lie as to why I had to go to the other branch on another day.

I think "having a talk" with my sensei is just not the Japanese way and would make me seem selfish. I also think part of training is to be able to do one's best in any situation, so don't want to feel like I am "running away."

Anyway, thanks to the forum for letting me get this off my chest...and anybody ever have any similar situation or advice?
Posted by: Triddle

Re: getting along in a very small dojo - 04/02/08 04:49 AM

All I can say is to take a step back and look at yourself in your training. Are you truly better than the others? Make as objective a decision as you can on this.

If you really are better than them, which you probably are, think of this - If you left, or started to deviate, think of the poor sensei, stuck there with a kid who sounds like he'd rather not be there and an annoying sod.

If you're not better than them then I'm sure your sensei wouldn't mind you leaving.

That said, if you're not enjoying your training anymore go elsewhere. Why are the higher ranks not training anyway? Seems odd that all three of them would be unable to train. If the sensei at the other branch is as able a teacher as the sensei at your branch I would honestly advise you to move there.

Also, if you were to train at the other branch, would it mean SUBTRACTING a session from your current branch, or just going to the other place in addition to going to your current one? If it does not mean subtracting a training session I can't see why not go there.
Posted by: Taison

Re: getting along in a very small dojo - 04/02/08 04:56 AM

I'd say, go to where you'll develop. Trudging in one place for too long is a waste of time.

Some people have had over a dozen of teachers in their lives. It's not heresy to seek out development and 'new' ideas to your martial experience.

-Taison out
Posted by: chofukainoa

Re: getting along in a very small dojo - 04/02/08 05:32 AM

I didn't mean to suggest that I was better than others. Everybody has their strengths and weaknesses, and I have a lot of work to do! Having said that, sensei has been praising me a lot recently (to a somewhat uncomfortable degree--praising one out of four people but not the others is kind of obvious, especially when you are the only non-Japanese) but not holding back on the criticism, either.

My problem with the father is more personality, but it makes for an uncomfortable environment. The son is really just too small and out of it to be an effective partner.

The higher ranks have totally valid personal reasons for taking a break from training, but it is unclear when they will return.

Practices at the other branch are run by our shihan and his son, and I have gone there a few times before. It would mean swapping a training day, but keeping my total training days equal. Oh, and my sensei goes there to train under the shihan on the same day, so it is not like I can hide it. But again, if I had a reasonable excuse I guess it wouldn't be a problem.

I will probably start doing that, if even just sometimes.
Posted by: Taison

Re: getting along in a very small dojo - 04/02/08 05:37 AM

Like I said;

I'd advice you to talk to your sensei and be honest about things. I know this whole culture thing eating at your gut, but you're not getting anywhere if you're still practicing with either a) a kid who has the attention span of a goldfish b) a father who just doesn't know what he's doing either.

Tell your sensei that you want to become better and stronger, and that the environment you're in now does not help much.

Or you could do it the easy way;

Just tell him you're unable to attend the usual schedules and you'll attend the other sessions which you've mentioned.

-Taison out
Posted by: chofukainoa

Re: getting along in a very small dojo - 04/02/08 06:08 AM

Thanks...I will probably pick "easy way".
Posted by: Taison

Re: getting along in a very small dojo - 04/02/08 06:47 AM

Yeah,

Welcome to the dark side, my padawan.

Then again, you're paying for the classes so you have the right to appear in whatever session you want.

Unless you signed a contract then you're [explicit] beyond measure.

-Taison out
Posted by: chofukainoa

Re: getting along in a very small dojo - 04/02/08 06:51 AM

Oh, no no no...no contract stuff. We just pay a very small amount each month for the rental of the practice spaces. I guess I am actually fortunate that I do have alternatives.
Posted by: harlan

Re: getting along in a very small dojo - 04/02/08 07:57 AM

I'm in a similar, but different boat. One teacher, two sessions a week, and only two students. I'm far from good, but after two years I am passing the older student. And classes just seem to 'drag on', going over the same stuff month after month, and the classes have generally stalled...held back because the other student has hit his plateau and doesn't practice. It's just exercise for him...but that two hour class gets eaten up quick going over the basics and kata every week. It's a pleasant, small group of older people, and costs nothing...and would be easy to just 'coast'...doing the same 5 katas over and over again for the next 10 years...never getting any better.

One choice is to get fit enough to attend a 'branch' as well, but it's really a 'move up', and would be an uncomfortable fit...not something I want to do (even if it was 'allowed').

Another is simply to stick it out during the classes, and since they are very informal, come with a plan on what I want to address every week. In the USA, and in our situation, it's very informal and small, so teacher will always get to the point in class of asking 'Do you have any questions?' and 'What do you want to work on?'

I've found that small changes in dynamics are like water...they add up. In the past, I've found that being slightly more 'self-directed' in the training, jumping on the opportunities to do what I want, that it changes the dojo dynamics ever so slightly over time. 'Charges' things, and people tend to either step up to the plate...or slowly stop coming. Problem solved.
Posted by: Ket

Re: getting along in a very small dojo - 04/02/08 09:11 AM

Sounds to me like it's a simple question of, How Far Would you like to take your training? Where are you going with it? Is it a serious hobby, or aspiration?

If the answer is "Far", and "Yes" ...then the solution is simple. As said already, time for a change. Darn the kid with, and I quote, "The attention span of a goldfish." and the well intentioned yet obnoxious father. one should not allow uncomfortable situations that are easily changed effect how you go about your day-to-day routine, especially when it involves doing something you'd normally enjoy.
Posted by: MattJ

Re: getting along in a very small dojo - 04/02/08 10:28 AM

Quote:

I'd say, go to where you'll develop. Trudging in one place for too long is a waste of time.




Quote for truth. Very good advice.
Posted by: Neko456

Re: getting along in a very small dojo - 04/02/08 10:44 AM

I was trained in a small dojo, one of the problems that I have with my present students is they want to get everything from the dojo. I found that the dojo gives you the tools and you have to sharpen them what I did as young 4th kyu - Shodan was to train with others at the same level from different gyms.

I'd also test or train against street fighters, wrestlers and boxers usually buddies that were interesting in training some joined our dojo. Personally I don't think dojo training is going to give you all you need to be aware of all the possibilities. I think you can train in a small dojo and still gain skills through repetition but u have to test your results.

Now in a large dojo you have different sizes and speeds and toughness but they are all fighting is a similar style or method.

Even now when we try to mimmick boxers, street fighters or wrestlers or JJ guys its different then train against a person that really fights this style + & -.

At a basic level you need to build your basic at certain point you want and need variety and versitilty that one dojo won't give you, if trained in a Traditional way.

The dojo plants the seeds you must water it so that it grows. IMHO.
Posted by: Dereck

Re: getting along in a very small dojo - 04/02/08 01:30 PM

I train in a small dojang and yes personalities can get in the way however I find if it takes away from your training and you are not having fun then it is time to move on. Be honest with yourself because when it all boils down it is "your" life.

As you've provided limited information I wonder if your Instructor is keeping control of the class. I know for myself that nobody speaks out of turn and nobody laughs at other individuals. Correction of any student is usually followed up by the Instructor or higher Dans. Also as a student it is always good to question even the Instructor otherwise you limit your learning.

In all honestly, for my training a lot of the reasons why I continue is because of the people. The people I have made special bonds with and enjoy training with is what spurs me to continue training. If that changes I won't be there anymore. I love/hate my weight lifting and even without martial arts I would continue to do this as I was doing it before ... that is "me" time. Training in martial arts is wonderful and if not fun then I would leave and if I didn't decide to pick something up immediately (or at all), I would still have my weight lifting. Don't get me wrong, I love other aspects of the training ... and dislike some ... and that also keeps me coming back but the atmosphere is a very important factor for "fun" level and cannot be forgotten.

Again, do what is right for you. Be honest to your Instructor but be honest with yourself.
Posted by: oldman

Re: getting along in a very small dojo - 04/02/08 05:47 PM

Dereck,
You make me feel like Crocadile Dundee...

That's nawt ah small dojang...

This is ah small dojang!!!




To the O.P.Big or small there will be conflicts and issues to deal with. I have brought many concerns I have had over the years to the forum. Some have been addressed publicly and some privately. It can be a good place for advice. Sometimes it just helps to voice what is on your mind. Good luck working out your concerns.
Posted by: Dereck

Re: getting along in a very small dojo - 04/02/08 05:59 PM

good one Mark.

When I think of the dojang I also think of the amount of people and most certainly you would win. We don't have a large group anymore and it is dwindling. Getting new students is rather difficult especially for adults. During the late afternoon there is still a good amount of children but the early evening for youths is in decline and adults are even worse for the late class. It is sad as I remember a good amount of people and those that have stuck are the basis of the school. Pretty bad when our black belt line has more people then our colored belt line; and there are never more then 8 black belts and usually less attending.
Posted by: JasonM

Re: getting along in a very small dojo - 04/03/08 12:00 AM

ditto, that aint' small dereck..I am soo jealous...
Posted by: chofukainoa

Re: getting along in a very small dojo - 04/03/08 06:56 AM

Thanks for the comments, everyone.

As for the question about my sensei, a lot of times the problems are happening in kumite, when sensei is also participating with each student in turn. I don't expect him to notice everything.

That said, he usually only speaks harshly towards adults if they are doing something dangerous. The general attitude is that they have to be responsible for themselves. His style is to make good examples of others through praise, but personally I think sometimes that can lead to jealousy, maybe more so in Japan where people hide so many emotions.

He is much harder on the younger students, but still does not deal out "punishment" such as pushups. Outside of school martial arts clubs, I think such tactics are pretty rare in Japan nowadays because people would just quit or parents would complain.

The father's laughing at people happens behind their backs usually or in snide comments to other students. I made it pretty clear at one point that I wasn't interested in hearing it.

Although I have to say that some laughter is culturally different...like if you fall down or hurt yourself anywhere in Japan, the people you are with are likely to laugh even if they are your friends. It used to really get on my nerves. Actually, it still does!

Anyway, I have already told sensei I might have to start going to the other branch sometimes because of work conflicts (this is actually not a lie), and he offered to give me rides there because he passes through my neighborhood on the way. So I guess it is not really going to be a problem. I think maybe I was overconcerned about cultural differences.