Challenge the forum wisdom

Posted by: MattJ

Challenge the forum wisdom - 10/01/07 09:46 AM

There are a lot of ideas that get floated on our little piece of the net here. Some good, some bad. Some seem to get a life of their own, and become automatic answers to certain questions. Perhaps you agree. Perhaps you disagree, but have been unwilling to say so. Here is your chance to offer a reasoned opinion counter to that of the "entrenched" forum wisdom on a given subject.

I'll go first.

"You can't learn from books/videos/internet/etc."

Yes, you can - AS LONG AS you have a partner to actually practice and refine said technique on. Reading without practice will get you nowhere. And sometimes even with the partner, you will not be able to get things to work, because the medium you are attempting to learn from cannot impart the necessary detail to make it functional.

But sometimes, all you need is just the idea to get started with the practice. My entire knowledge of Chi Sao came about from reading an article in some MA magazine years ago. It interested me enough to cajole my training partners into trying it, and LO AND BEHOLD - with practice, it worked!

It can be a valuable resource if no other means of instruction is available. But again, you have to actually WORK and PRACTICE the stuff to make it functional.

There you go.
Posted by: JKogas

Re: Challenge the forum wisdom - 10/01/07 10:05 AM

Matt, I will second that notion. You can learn from books as well as video. This is particularly true if you've already been training and have some experience, but it applies to anyone so long as you put in the practice time.


-John
Posted by: Ronin1966

Re: Challenge the forum wisdom - 10/01/07 10:06 AM

Hello Matt:

Ideas given in books, magazines are very much like seeds. Once "planted", (regardless of the subject) they likely grow, but only if nurtured, attended to, mulled over.

I cannot learn thousands of things, but I can read of them, and appreciate their articulation, how a subject is explained, presented. If done well enough, our curiousity, our interests piqued we eventually explore them...

The expertise it takes to write a good book, communicate clearly, intelligently in writing is a good challenge. I was never a seeker of haphazard disconnected techniques, techniques without a basic context ie "succatash technique" chaos. But it works for some...

Like your sentiment, read THEN practice until functional.
Jeff
Posted by: Ed_Morris

Re: Challenge the forum wisdom - 10/01/07 10:39 AM

this is connected:
http://www.fightingarts.com/ubbthreads/s...=0#Post15964477


an intrenched forum answer that only serves to annoy is: "you just have to feel it".

yes. thats absolutely true. but if left at that answer, then why even participate in a forum? whats the point of 'conversation' if the answer will always come down to a condecending: "find an instructor. you just have to feel it."
Posted by: RazorFoot

Re: Challenge the forum wisdom - 10/01/07 10:42 AM

"High kicks don't work."

Yes, they do. They simply have to be set up properly. How many MMA matches have been decided by the unexpected kick to the head/face? Quite a few. Many MMA guys rely on that as a big finishing move when they have the guy on the ropes so to speak. Using good hand combinations, they close and out of nowhere, pow, head kick, good night Gracie (not actually one of the Gracie brothers but you get the idea).

Scottie
Posted by: Ironfoot

Re: Challenge the forum wisdom - 10/01/07 10:43 AM

Quote:

... You can learn from books as well as video. This is particularly true if you've already been training and have some experience...
-John




IMHO, that's the key. You have to have a frame of reference - to know basic mechanics.
Posted by: Dereck

Re: Challenge the forum wisdom - 10/01/07 10:43 AM

Quote:

Matt, I will second that notion. You can learn from books as well as video. This is particularly true if you've already been training and have some experience, but it applies to anyone so long as you put in the practice time.


-John




I will take this a step further Matt but taking something from John's post. I agree that you can learn from books and magazine but I would put some stipulations on that. If you have training and experience then your chances of success will increase because you already have some basic understanding. Working with another partner is a "must" so that you can both critique each other plus work together on figuring out things. However I don't believe that a person with no experience, working by themselves can truly comprehend and understand things enough to learn the basics. Bad habits would be formed that could impede actually training and also could lead to injuries. Plus many aspects are required by working with others to understand timing, distance, etc. ... and how do you learn to clinch, grapple, joint manipulation, etc. without a partner?
Posted by: MattJ

Re: Challenge the forum wisdom - 10/01/07 11:01 AM

Quote:

yes. thats absolutely true. but if left at that answer, then why even participate in a forum? whats the point of 'conversation' if the answer will always come down to a condecending: "find an instructor. you just have to feel it."




Agreed, Ed. That answer by itself is pointless on a forum. Surely there is some level of technical articulation to support what is actually going on (in mechanical terms), huh?
Posted by: Ed_Morris

Re: Challenge the forum wisdom - 10/01/07 11:09 AM

for me, a training video just illustrates possibilities...things to try...directions for pursuit. etc. It does not provide specific instruction since it is not interactive....for me anyway. In other words, if you watch and follow along with the entire Higaonna training series - it's a stretch to say you train Goju and/or claim your instructor is M. Higaonna.


and of course video material in documentary form can be comparitively interesting and educational. That type of materieal is not meant as instruction, just as a moving document.
Posted by: Neko456

Re: Challenge the forum wisdom - 10/01/07 11:09 AM

I think if you already have a well established base and a workout partner or group you can learn from seminars, books and videos.

If you have a base already established. imho.
Posted by: butterfly

Re: Challenge the forum wisdom - 10/01/07 11:58 AM

Yep! What John and Necko stated: That if there is a base from which understanding spreads--something more than just trying to copy what's shown without understanding what you are copying. If you already have a primer down in basic practice, then everything else introduced to you along those same lines will probably be more easily visualized and accommodated in your regular training.

Think of someone phonetically getting a simple song memorized from a another language....and not even knowing what they were singing or being able to take the words from the song and use them in basic sentences. Same thing...may sound ok, but you can't use what you just learned in any other way but to amuse startled natives at the karaoke bar.

On another note, going along with this thread, what I find faulty with a lot of explanation is that there is no explanation. If technique A works, but it is ascribed to something less funamental and more metaphysical and you are left with a dismissive wave of the hand when asked to explain more thoroughly....well, that's just not very helpful.