Poll on Strength training

Posted by: Burnsie

Poll on Strength training - 08/28/07 03:34 PM

I apologize in advance if this is a repeat poll...but how many martial artists here actively use strength training to supplement their martial arts conditioning? This could be weights or other functional strength training outside the dojo/dojang/club, etc.

I personally believe that it's a very effective method of training, and if done properly can make you a better martial artist. Many others (like many of the black belts in my dojo, including the instructors) think it makes people slow.

What about every pro-level sport out there? i.e. Football/soccer, american football, track and field, hockey, basketball - they all use strength training to make them better, stronger and faster - why would martial arts be any different?

(And I posted it here, since those that don't beleive in strength training probably don't spend much time on that board)
Posted by: Cord

Re: Poll on Strength training - 08/28/07 03:51 PM

OK everyone, there are no prizes for guessing my votes
Posted by: MattJ

Re: Poll on Strength training - 08/28/07 04:42 PM

I regularly use strength training, and I consider it an integral part of my martial arts training.
Posted by: Supremor

Re: Poll on Strength training - 08/28/07 05:11 PM

ditto. I feel that squatting and deadlifting have not only made me much stronger, but they have also helped my joints stay healthy after brutalising them playing basketball for many years.
Posted by: Ironfoot

Re: Poll on Strength training - 08/28/07 05:20 PM

I cast the first vote saying strength training was NOT an integral part of martial arts. While it's beneficial to your health, and - all other factors aside, bet on the strongest one in the fight - if you rely on strength you're not doing it right. Focus should be on technique.
Posted by: medulanet

Re: Poll on Strength training - 08/28/07 07:36 PM

Ironfoot, I don't think its a reliance on strength, just understanding how developing physical attributes increases the effectiveness of technique. The stronger you are physically the more powerful your techniques are. Why do you think men generally have more powerful techniques than women? Its not because men focus more on technique, its the biological difference in strength between men and women. The same is true about any other physical attributes. Strength is not just things like power lifting, but also explosive strength training. Its surprising, I thought all martial artists wanted to develop explosive strength which in turn develops explosive power in their techniques. Without such training, it will be very difficult to develop effective technique.
Posted by: wristtwister

Re: Poll on Strength training - 08/28/07 08:25 PM

I think it's more a matter of learning to relax than "doing it with strength". I do strength training all the time, but my aikido and aiki-jujutsu is "soft and floppy", but very powerful.

If you don't do strength training, you're liable to injure yourself doing techniques when you get a little over-extended, so it's an important part of being a "whole" martial artist. Throwing somebody heavy isn't always a matter of "flow", but sometimes "helping" them over the hump to be thrown, and I've seen lots of Aikidoka and jujutsu players stopped cold by somebody that could muscle them, so when you need muscle to help, you have to have it or eat your technique. That isn't "muscling" it, but having the strength to complete your movment.

While I agree that correct movement, off-balancing, and execution are the way to go, a little additional strength is always good in helping you have more energy to go longer if the fight is prolonged. When I was doing karate all the time, we did 3-minute rounds, and then stepped them up to 5 and 7 minute rounds. Training for 3 minutes was LOTS easier... and 7 minutes can seem like eternity if you don't do strength training.

It's not the way to do technique, it's a way to "continue" doing technique and to "assist" it if necessary.

Posted by: Cord

Re: Poll on Strength training - 08/29/07 02:50 AM

Quote:

I think it's more a matter of learning to relax than "doing it with strength". I do strength training all the time, but my aikido and aiki-jujutsu is "soft and floppy", but very powerful.

If you don't do strength training, you're liable to injure yourself doing techniques when you get a little over-extended, so it's an important part of being a "whole" martial artist. Throwing somebody heavy isn't always a matter of "flow", but sometimes "helping" them over the hump to be thrown, and I've seen lots of Aikidoka and jujutsu players stopped cold by somebody that could muscle them, so when you need muscle to help, you have to have it or eat your technique. That isn't "muscling" it, but having the strength to complete your movment.

While I agree that correct movement, off-balancing, and execution are the way to go, a little additional strength is always good in helping you have more energy to go longer if the fight is prolonged. When I was doing karate all the time, we did 3-minute rounds, and then stepped them up to 5 and 7 minute rounds. Training for 3 minutes was LOTS easier... and 7 minutes can seem like eternity if you don't do strength training.

It's not the way to do technique, it's a way to "continue" doing technique and to "assist" it if necessary.






That is a very well written post so many who do not put much stock in strength conditioning somehow believe that building strength will be at the expense of their technical ability in MA, its not the case; all it gives you is greater raw resources to apply in your techniques.
If you have two equally skillful professional racing drivers go head to head, the one with the better specified car will win. same in MA. Skill vs Skill + superior conditioning is a no brainer IMO
Posted by: JKogas

Re: Poll on Strength training - 08/29/07 06:19 AM

I agree. Strength isn't a substitute for technique but it can FUEL technique.

I am a believer in strength and conditioning, although I never do any myself, lol. I just show up and train. This has been fine as I've gotten most of my conditioning through boxing and wrestling.

The problem is, without some supplemental strength training, you may set yourself up for injuries that could have been prevented otherwise. I've suffered from shoulder injuries that I believe could have been avoided if I'd just worked a bit more on strength training.

Using strength training however to patch up weak technique or just to try and be stronger than everyone else in a fight is not a good idea imo. Thus I don't train to try and overpower folks. As soon as you encounter the one guy just as big and strong as you are with better technique, you're screwed.

Overall, strength training is fine for injury prevention and general fitness. Just keep an eye on how you use your strength when training, particularly in grappling arts.


-John
Posted by: wristtwister

Re: Poll on Strength training - 08/29/07 06:22 AM

I watched a number of MMA bouts on television last night. Everybody in the matches was a "prime conditioned" athlete. The three knockouts I remember seeing were by the guys with the best technique, but the bouts kept going because they were "in shape"... often won after the winner survived the initial onslaught of the other, and went on to knock out their opponent. Clearly, their strength kept them in the game. It didn't replace their technique, but it sure kept them standing up and in the game.

Too many people that don't employ strength training think that they won't get hit in a fight... or that their "superior technique" will instantly overcome their opponent. 45 years on the mats tells me different...

Some people's moment is when they find out the other guy is trying to knock them out...

Posted by: Dereck

Re: Poll on Strength training - 08/29/07 10:37 AM

- Weight lifting since December 27, 1997
- Joined Taekwondo September 18, 2002
- Training BJJ since 2005

You draw your conclusions
Posted by: Journey

Re: Poll on Strength training - 08/30/07 08:45 AM

I have been strength training for a year now with a PT who has no mercy. (The real thing not soccer mom stuff) As a result I can kick and punch just as hard as most men in my dojo. It has helped me heal a bad lower back as well which has also aided in my MA training. And no it has not slowed me down even though I have more defined muscles. As a matter of fact I think it kind of helps because you can develop more "muscle awareness" which helps in control and speed. Nothing but good in my humble opinion.
Posted by: Ironfoot

Re: Poll on Strength training - 08/31/07 08:55 AM

Hey, I'm not saying separate strength training is a BAD thing; I do it myself. I'm only saying it's not an INTEGRAL part of martial arts. Working out with the bo does wonders for your shoulders, arms and hands for instance, so normal training is strength training by itself.
Posted by: BodhiHuss

Re: Poll on Strength training - 08/31/07 12:43 PM

Resistance training not only increase muscle size, but also increases the size and strength of tendons, ligaments, and bones. In addition, resistance training improves vascularity, making the body more efficient at oxygen exchange. Weight training improves overall health, endurance, stamina, and strength. This type of conditioning may not be integral to your martial arts training, but adding it to your routine will undoubtedly make you a better martial artist (or athlete of any kind).
Posted by: Bushi_no_ki

Re: Poll on Strength training - 08/31/07 07:01 PM

I have to respectfully disagree with those that say strength training is not integral to MA. Now, I'm not saying everyone needs to spend 2 hours a day, 3 days a week in a gym lifting weights, but pushups, situps, pullups, and running are very important training areas. I know most people here will never have to worry about pulling someone out of a burning vehicle or building, or charge a hill in a firefight, but if you are training in MA, even for sport, the better conditioned you are overall, the better a martial artist you are.
Posted by: Usenthemighty

Re: Poll on Strength training - 08/31/07 11:50 PM

Yea strength training is very important in my martial art regiment. I believe it should be in everyones training. The stronger/more fit you are ,the better you can fight.
Posted by: Ironfoot

Re: Poll on Strength training - 09/04/07 08:42 AM

I focused in on the word INTEGRAL, people. As I said, nothing wrong with being strong, but I've seen small ancient aikido masters throwing people around like rag dolls. You can't tell me they're stronger than the average MA. Is anyone saying you can't be a top notch MA WITHOUT strength training?
Posted by: Dereck

Re: Poll on Strength training - 09/04/07 09:28 AM

No, they are saying you can be better. Technique is better then "strength and no technique". "Technique and strength" is better then just technique.