Chinese "Name Stamp" ???

Because it's the accepted "uniform".

Baseball, the military & jousters all have it's proper & appropriate dress. No different.

You sure complicate something not complicated, plus I think they look nice.

Yeah, they look nice. But I'm not complicating anything. I'm just reflecting on the topic from an Asian perspective.

I'm not saying that it's right or wrong, just there are those who will see it as frivolous mimicry. And if you know anything about Asian culture, you'll also know that (in general), Asians care a lot about what others think & say about them.

Americans have an "I don't give a rats azz" attitude. Independance trumps group-think. This can be good (MA evolution) or bordering on the rediculous (too many soke).

I apologise if my POV came across as intollerant because it wasn't my intent (to be a sourpuss). It was to simply to offer an Asian perspective. I mean, if I had spinich in my teeth, I hope someone would point it out early on & not let me go to an important meeting w/ shrubbery in my mouth.

Well for what it's worth when we give out our belt certs I just sign my name at the bottom anyway so....but still think those little stamps look nice.

check it out
http://www.jun-gifts.com/personalizedgifts/hanko/hanko1/hanko1.htm

That it looks silly.

Kanji looks cool to us westerners, but to us asians, it looks weird. (Yikes! I'm in between!)

For example, having the word "Sky", Tian1 or Ten in japanese, is something I've seen often on Westerners, but to us Asians who are literate in kanji thinks "Why does he walk around with the word "Sky" on his bicep?"

Imagine if I tattooed the word S K Y on my arm. Wouldn't you think it looks a bit.. odd? I mean, I could've tattooed a lion or something but opted for the word sky. Same thing with Asians when it comes to Kanji tattooes.

Us Asians, unlike us Westerners (here it goes again), are VERY concerned when it comes to what other people think.

Writing your name in Kanji, is another thing I find very odd for a westerner. My name is Ekstrom, which translated from Swedish to English would be "Oak stream". I could write it in kanji easily but it would be "Oaku Kawa", which isn't my name. Since I've got cantonese ancestry from my mother's side, I'm part of the 'Yuen' family but I never use that name because I'm NOT cantonese, only part.

I'm not against the Westerners trying to get some Asian traditions, I'm just merely giving my opinion like Hedkikr as we both are "halflings" who kinda know how both ways work. For me, who's predominantly Asian, I find it just either odd or silly. Not against it, just finding it odd.

For example, seeing a white guy dressed in the thai national outfit. I just slap my forehead sometimes and smile.

-Taison out

Nice to have someone close by who "gets it".

That's the gift & delema of straddling 2 distinctly different cultures. On one hand, Asians initially assume "you're not one of us" (especially me because I don't look Asian @ all) but they really like it when you show that you know & are familiae w/ the customs & culture.

Definately not THE Asian perspective, just a perspective (mine).

In my fatherland, I get treated like an asian i.e. "You're an immigrant".

In my motherland, I get treated like a westerner i.e. You're very direct and rude. So Western.

To a Swede, I look Thai, to a Thai I look like a Swede. Hard to fit in, aye?

But both societies find me really useful, as I'm like the connecting bridge sometimes and I understand both cultures.

-Taison out

Well, I suppose there is some benefit to understanding cultural bias. I just don't buy into it...the whole 'us vs. them' worldview. 'That looks silly' is something a 3 yr old might say about an old lady wearing a big red hat. I'm not into red hats, but if an old lady wants to wear one I can appreciate it.

But coming from adults, 'that looks silly' is just a way to continue discrimination. I was the only kid wearing a dashiki at the yearly 'Harambee' in the '60's (an 'African' cultural appreciation event)...and as a kid I was tolerated. But as an adult it is 'who is she...that white woman...she doesn't belong...she looks silly in a dashiki.'

It's true that there is just so much that can be directly translated/carried over into another culture. Western names as Chinese characters is just aspect where that doesn't happen seamlessly. It looks 'odd' to the eye educated in Chinese culture...but is it 'silly'?

OK, it looks odd - silly was the wrong word.

It's a nice fairy tale but the fact is, the world has always been about (as you put it) us vs. them - and it's not always a negative thing. "Tribal mentality" is hardwired into us because it's the way we learn from birth. We distinguish (discriminate) the color black from white, then boys from girls & eventually IBM from Apple.

It's not wrong or bad, however prejudging a negative & acting on that prejudice w/o supportive evidence can result in someone getting hurt (physically, empotionally, socio-economically...). Fact is, we'll never all hold hands & sing "We Are The World" although we can make efforts within our own little circles of influence - like this forum.

My point is this: you say that there is benefit to understanding "cultural bias" but you don't buy into it. That, my friend, is the definition of denial (I know I drink a lot but I don't believe it's a problem). Accept that these biases exist within all of us & see how they influence our actions (including speech).

Yes, you have the right to wear a dashiki & you might not care what anyone thinks but if you take the time to ask & listen, you might learn that your "fashion choice" has deeper meaning to a black person that you may never fully comprehend.

(BTW: I majored in Communication w/ an emphasis in Cross-cultural & Organizational Com.)

I see your point, Ed. And as another halfy on the board, I think one can also infer too much into something that another person just digs on an aesthetic level, instead of entering any cross cultural barriers.

If you like it, and you are not seated firmly in some other culture and owe no acceptance within that other culture for your enjoyment of a particular thing, I think it makes no never mind for digging it. The problems come into being when trying to fit yourself into something you are not.

BTW, Taison, my grandfather came from Sweden. Told me once he couldn't speak English until he was eight. I see the correct spelling of my last name every time I go to Ikea and see some of the "designed by" tags.

Yeah...I majored in Anthropology myself. I'm not into 'cultural relativism' or 'historical revisionism'. Without 'gunboat diplomacy' Asian businessmen wouldn't currently be wearing Western dress to meetings...and considering it 'normal'.

BTW: everybody is a 'halfie'.;)

Harlan,

Everyone a halfie? Nah...I don't think so, especially if no other culture enters into the consideration. One can be poor, one can be rich, one can be whatever, but you find normalcy within that sameness of cultural background...like knowing that the elevator music is a corrupted Simon and Garfunkel tune played slowler and electronically attempting the sound of an orchestra...not whaling away with cybals and chimes you have no recognition of. It is also in the similarity of food, the consideration of appropriate behavior, and so many things that have to be slightly adjusted for the 'betweeners.'

Some of us, born in other countries and then moved to these here United States. I was too young to really look at anything differently, but if you have never been called "Chink" and then punched in the face for it...no, I don't think you can call yourself a halfie. Sorry.

-B

Biologically speaking...everyone is a 'halfie'

Don't mean to make light of the experiences of others in this area...obviously some people of mixed cultures will have a range of experiences. Some are more interested/vested in 'claiming' identification...I'm just into appreciation.

Thinking of name stamps, think I'll get one done up as a heiroglyphic cartouche. Little chance of the ancients objecting.

(For fun: http://hieroglyphs.net/0301/cgi/pager.pl?p=42 )

I understand where you are coming from. I was talking in terms of racial backgrounds differentiated by cultural constructs.

And despite the same cultural identity, you still have disparity in racial and gender terms. Don't mean to put anything down on what you stated. I agree more than disagree with your point about the name stamp....but thought to bear witness to some incongruity in the cross-cultural acknowledgement where there are attempts to state understanding where some or none might really be there.

The notion of 'Hafu' or 'half' isn't just politically incorrect, it's the most elusive form of racisim: the kind where people don't even know they are being racist. The more homogeninous a society/demographic is, the more 'built-in' racism there will be...and the less people will think anything of it.

stamps that make family name signatures 'official' in Japan, must have Kanji characters. We had a difficult time registering our kids' birth with a 'foreign' name since there was no kanji, only katakana for my family name....after a long time arguing with the beaurocrats that didn't have the slightest clue as to how that might be perceived as 'exclusionary', we decided to register using my wife's familyname kanji.


reminded me of the Elis island stories of immigrants coming to the US and the registrar, assigning them their 'easier to pronounce' names.

but the 'name stamp' system in Japan isn't about pronounciation, it's about exclusion. since katakana is a phonetic set, it's actually easier and less ambiguous to use the kana set. ....but only Japanese will have the Kanji names. {wink wink}

We had no choice. it was better for the kids to start school with a Kanji name than a foreign one, because of that built-in exclusion.

family name stamps are a fundamentally outdated system. ...I mean, how many Tanaka's are out there that have the same ambiguous stamp?

Oldman, I'm sorry that I had to bring the bad news.

I see that your wife had a lot of experience in Thailand, but like I've said, Thailand is rapidly changing so much. Right now I'm in my hometown of Pattaya, and it has changed so much in the last 4 years, I hardly remember it anymore. Can you imagine getting lost in your hometown?

Oldman, Sawan court was ripped down, but not all of it. Some part of it is still there, so if she ever wants to see it, parts of it is still there.

Brad, nice seeing another Swede offspring. Makes us 3. Matt, me and you. Swedes rulez. 'nuff said.

Harlan, it really depends where you grew up. In the US, it's a lot easier to grow up there because of the cultural mix. I mean, go to your local highschool, you'll have koreans, chinese, japanese, mexicans, puerto ricans, anglo-americans, afro-americans, croats, russians, etc etc.

Now, imagine a country like sweden where 99.99% of the school where in fact. . pure swedes, and me being the only black-haired asian there. Suffice to say, I did stand out like a sore thumb. Was I bullied? Not really, but it did feel hard to fit in. Then when I grew older I was moved to Thailand to learn my mother tongue better and hopefully find a place I can fit in. Well, on the outside I look like a Thai, but what I got from my fatherland was the culture, the way of thinking, manners, etc etc.

So you could say I'm like a banana. Yellow on the outside, white on the inside.

Many Thai find me rude because I'm very direct in my way of communication. Imagine being in a school where 99% of the students are Thai that value 'in-directness' and me being there saying anything that pops into my mind. For example, if a guy wears a hat and ask "do I look good?" the asian way to respond would be "yeah, but that other hat looks better". I'd just go "Nope. You look silly in it".

Sigh... I'm too tired to continue to type.

I'll add to this later when I'm in the mood.

-Taison out