Tech thread part 2 - hand position
Posted by: MattJ
Tech thread part 2 - hand position - 02/24/07 11:03 AM
Where do you all feel is best placement for hands in a combat scenario? Do you feel different hand positions are warranted for a 'street fight' as opposed to sparring? Does your head movement change where you place your hands - or vice-versa? Do you use 'faking' or other intentionally bad position?
Vote and explain.
Posted by: Taison
Re: Tech thread part 2 - hand position - 02/24/07 11:07 AM
Hands held high to facilitate faster jabs or grabs, head movement will shift my hands to protect my face if I slip, bob and weave.
And my guard is always the same, sparring or street.
-Taison out
Posted by: student_of_life
Re: Tech thread part 2 - hand position - 02/24/07 11:27 AM
i try to keep my hands as a mirror image im my opponents, if he has one high and one low then so do i, mostly as a defensive measure to help cut off his options. thats when were i close.
farther away, i like to fake alot and dance around talking the smack is it were. i watched ali one time and it stuck. my feeling is that when theres distance, play with it, and when theres non to spare its all business. but its still fun to talk to the guy your about to arm bar in a grapel, lol, its bad manors for judo but some times its just fun to warn him about the left arm bar then jump on the right....its a clasic and it works, im sorry....
my guard is different is sparing as it is in street fight, i don't have one in a street fight, this sounds like suicide i know bt in a street fight i keep my hands down and talk trash to the guy till he steps in on me, and i work from the openings the guy gives me. they always give me openings when there mad and they think there gonna sucker punch you. its not a smart tactic and i don't recomend anyone ever use it, but i like it for some reason. and it works for me. at least so far. and if i feel any threat at all from the guy or his friends i'd rather not risk a knife being pulled or worst. but it is satisfying to see someone frustrated that he can't hit you.
yours in life
Posted by: Chen Zen
Re: Tech thread part 2 - hand position - 02/24/07 12:23 PM
Lots of questions as of late. Your video didnt make you self concious did it?
I think the bet placement is one in, one out about chin height. Strong hand lead. I think whatever position you choose for the "street" is the same one you should be sparring and training with. Would be rather productive not to train it, or to train something you arent going to use.
Im surprised im the only one who voted this way. Your head movement should NOT change your hand position in a striking application. Lets say you move your head down, if your head drops down with it, you will still leave your head or face vulnerable and if they go up, you leave your torso weak.
And finally, yes I do use feints. I may fake an attack to open my opponent up. I may feint weakness, or bad positioning to draw them in. I may conceal my speed, or make them think Im scared. It all deends on what your working with, but you MUST SELL the fake. If the first time you set the fake and it isnt convincing, it probably wont work from that point on.
Posted by: Taison
Re: Tech thread part 2 - hand position - 02/24/07 12:51 PM
My hands doesn't move down or up.
For example if I throw the cross, my rear shoulder will move forward and offer protection to the face, my lead hand will contract back to cover the upper part, all while my head tilt to the opposite side to avoid any incoming jabs. A beautiful cross, I can say.
Basically, if one hand goes out, my head will tilt a little and my other hand will protect it as it tilts or moves. But I NEVER move it down or up to expose only sideway movement of the hands.
-Taison out
Posted by: Supremor
Re: Tech thread part 2 - hand position - 02/24/07 04:04 PM
I spar with a high tight guard, so I can't see myself wanting to change in a street encounter. I like the close guard defensively, and I think it offers a lot of options offensively, although it is slightly worse for quick jabs. I try to keep my head tucked in, so it doesn't change it's movement much, so my hands are always in the same place to protect it.
Faking, I don't personally like to "draw" my opponent in, I find it too risky for me. Personally if I got into a difficult encounter, I want to make myself seem very confident of beating the attacker, so that hopefully he would have think twice and maybe back off, or otherwise back off after a coupe of punches, giving me time to escape.
Posted by: Umbra_777
Re: Tech thread part 2 - hand position - 02/24/07 04:25 PM
I generaly do a high tight guard, although I'm still working on remembering to keep it up, especialy when I kick. I'm probably going to try to losen it up just a bit so I can get some more speed.
Something that several people in my TKD class do when sparring is keep one hand up guarding the face (I think usually the back hand) and the other down low guarding the body and groin. Anyone have any experience or thoughts on this?
-Umbra
Posted by: steelwater
Re: Tech thread part 2 - hand position - 02/25/07 03:59 AM
Umbra:
Yes, that is probably the same fighting stance I use.
Posted by: Leo_E_49
Re: Tech thread part 2 - hand position - 02/25/07 08:45 AM
Self defensive guard for me is further out. This is in case someone pulls a weapon. You'll have less time to intercept a weapon if you've got your arms right next to you. It's only a precaution though, as long as your hands are up, you'll be in the best position to defend yourself.
Posted by: Ed_Morris
Re: Tech thread part 2 - hand position - 02/25/07 10:39 AM
by 'street fight' you mean a bar alley brawl where you are being challenged by a guy for looking at his girlfriend? in that case, it's first a boxing (closed fist) and soon wrestling (open hand) match - the objective is to 'better' your opponent to 'save face'. The motivator is ego. The intent is to win without going to jail for murder or get sued paying someone's medical bills....but stuff happens, which is why it's wise to avoid showdowns.
There are other types of defense a rung lower level than the 'street fight' - plan on being hit first from a blind side when you don't expect it (as oppossed to 'squaring off'). if still concious but stunned, you can cover-up and hope for the best. or if your initial reflex was just enough to make the initial attack a glancing blow, a response should be something hard, fast and cruel....which open hand is best suited. If it goes beyond that one-shot 0.1 second of opportunity to gain advantage (or at least even the advantage), then the one with a mixed combination of the best strength,stamina,luck and training gets to walk away....and size very much matters....also if there is a weapon involved then luck plays a larger part.
anyone practice getting blind-sided? no time to close fists. try this: throw a dodge ball at someone who doesn't expect it - if they react in time they either try to catch it, evade it, cover up, swat it away or a mix....with an open hand. none of the time will someone not expecting it, close a fist and punch the ball away using hip tourque. why? not enough time. reflex is open hand and non-linear.
Posted by: Dereck
Re: Tech thread part 2 - hand position - 02/25/07 03:38 PM
All of my training has been in class and I've never had the opportunity of a street fight since; and hope I never do. So I have to assume how I train is how I will fight in a real life altercation. However when free sparring with stand-up to takedown, I fight like I said, how I was trained.
Posted by: JKogas
Re: Tech thread part 2 - hand position - 02/25/07 04:42 PM
If your sparring is as it should be, your hand position and everything else will be exactly as you'd use it on the street. Only minor adjustments are needed when moving from gloves to bare knuckles.
-John
Posted by: MattJ
Re: Tech thread part 2 - hand position - 02/25/07 06:21 PM
What if the attacker has a knife?
Posted by: Chen Zen
Re: Tech thread part 2 - hand position - 02/25/07 10:17 PM
Shouldnt affect your position, only strategy.
Posted by: ButterflyPalm
Re: Tech thread part 2 - hand position - 02/26/07 01:36 AM
Where did The Greatest put his hands?
And where did the loser put his hands?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oD99VbFzqAgAs Mohd Ali was my hero back when I did school boy boxing, I copied his style and found that if you put your hands where he did, hanging around the waist area, you have a full complete view of your opponent and all you need to get out of the way of a jab or swing is to just tilt your head back a couple of inches and the jab or swing will miss by a mile; whereas if you hold the recommended way of covering your face, you not only do not have a full view, but to get out of the way you needed to pull your whole upper body back. Not only is this slow, it does not allow a quick counter from you and some opportunistic openings of your opponent's defences are also blocked by your own hands. Also it is a little less trying in a long bout.
Posted by: JKogas
Re: Tech thread part 2 - hand position - 02/26/07 07:49 AM
MattJ wrote:
Quote:
What if the attacker has a knife?
Well, there are variable factors at work here I think it's safe to say.
The simple answer is, run like hell. I mean, if I have time to see that my opponent is brandishing a knife, that would be a valid option. Otherwise, I'd rather have my arm cut than my neck anyway.
Its my opinion that many people will attack the body with a knife. But again, if you can SEE the knife, run like hell.
If you didn't see the knife, it's IN you already. Then if you have a clinch game, you respond accordingly.
Butterflypalm wrote:
Quote:
Where did The Greatest put his hands?
And where did the loser put his hands?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oD99VbFzqAg
The thing about that is, Ali was "The Greatest". The loser wasn't, lol.
Are your attributes as good as Muhammad Ali's? I mean, if you're as good a fighter as Ali was, you can put your hands ANYWHERE -- even behind your back, lol.
Unfortunately, most of us aren't blessed with Ali's talent or attributes. Keeping my arms down around my waist would be the VERY LAST thing that I'd encourage anyone to do.
Quote:
As Mohd Ali was my hero back when I did school boy boxing, I copied his style and found that if you put your hands where he did, hanging around the waist area, you have a full complete view of your opponent
Unless you’re always the best fighter in a fight, I wouldn’t recommend that. To my friends I wouldn’t.
Quote:
and all you need to get out of the way of a jab or swing is to just tilt your head back a couple of inches and the jab or swing will miss by a mile; whereas if you hold the recommended way of covering your face, you not only do not have a full view, but to get out of the way you needed to pull your whole upper body back.
Disagree. That’s why you have slipping and ducking. If your opponent has a superior reach, tilting back a few inches won’t cut it once he recognizes your timing and rhythm.
Quote:
Not only is this slow, it does not allow a quick counter from you and some opportunistic openings of your opponent's defences are also blocked by your own hands. Also it is a little less trying in a long bout.
I can’t disagree more. This is probably not bad if you’re Prince Naseem or someone and like him, all of your opponents are tomato cans.
But really, to advocate holding your arms around your waist isn't something I'd want my students to do. It isn't even something I'd want to recommend on public forum. Some guys may be inexperienced enough to actually try that and end up KTFO'd.
-John
Posted by: Cord
Re: Tech thread part 2 - hand position - 02/26/07 08:35 AM
Quote:
Where did The Greatest put his hands?
in a boxing environment, a pro fighter does their homework and learns/watches their upcoming oponent. This means that when they step in the ring the oponent is (as far as is possible) a known quantity. Ali used different attributes at different times- against Foreman, for example, he knew if his chin got caught the fight was over, and he had his hands up plenty in that fight.
Hands down has been tried by many boxers- Naseem Hamed, Curtland Lang, even Audley Harrison insisted on a horrible low slung left hand. They have all been caught out in this game of roulette, as was Ali- hardly a stranger to the canvas himself.
A good traditional guard should be where everyone begins. From there it may change as your experience and attributes become apparent, but if in doubt, chin down and hands up is your best bet IMO.
Posted by: JohnL
Re: Tech thread part 2 - hand position - 02/26/07 11:19 AM
Quote:
Where did The Greatest put his hands?
And where did the loser put his hands?
While he may be a great example to follow, remember that he was a boxer. That does not equate to anything else.
Don't get me wrong, boxings great, but if he and his opponent didn't have gloves on, many of the tactics he used wouldn't be the best.
Posted by: MattJ
Re: Tech thread part 2 - hand position - 02/26/07 11:47 AM
Quote by Butterflypalm -
Quote:
found that if you put your hands where he did, hanging around the waist area, you have a full complete view of your opponent and all you need to get out of the way of a jab or swing is to just tilt your head back a couple of inches and the jab or swing will miss by a mile; whereas if you hold the recommended way of covering your face, you not only do not have a full view, but to get out of the way you needed to pull your whole upper body back.
I have noticed something like this as well, and this is actually what prompted the third poll question of this thread. Has anyone else noticed that keeping a high guard restricts head/upper body movement somewhat? I feel increased tension in my neck from having to keep the guard up, which makes it harder to keep the head and shoulders mobile.
That said, I agree with JKogas and the others that high guard is generally more reliable, and thus preferable.
Posted by: AndrewGreen
Re: Tech thread part 2 - hand position - 02/26/07 01:33 PM
Hand positioning, like everything else, is not a one size fits all deal.
What's the other guy likely to try and do to me? Is he going to try and take me down? Is he going to try and kick me in the head, Is he going to try and clinch?
Who's the better striker? Do I want to encourage him to try and hit me because I know I can win standing? Do I want to get him to try and swing so I can shoot for a takedown? Do I want to try and drive straight through his punches and force a clinch? Keep him at a distance with Jabs and leg kicks?
Fighting is largely a game of strategy, and having only one strategy won't get you far in games of strategy. Would be like playing chess and only having one attack strategy.
Posturing dictates your options, and the other guys. You need to give yourself the options you want, and take away the ones he wants. Make him fight your game.
That said, I lean towards the Crane stance from Karate Kid
Posted by: MattJ
Re: Tech thread part 2 - hand position - 02/26/07 01:35 PM
Quote by AndrewGreen -
Quote:
That said, I lean towards the Crane stance from Karate Kid
LMAO!!! 
"No can defense!"
Posted by: Dereck
Re: Tech thread part 2 - hand position - 02/26/07 01:45 PM
Quote:
Quote by AndrewGreen -
Quote:
That said, I lean towards the Crane stance from Karate Kid
LMAO!!! "No can defense!"
That is until the next movie when it can be defended and then they introduce the drum technique.
Posted by: sntint
Re: Tech thread part 2 - hand position - 02/26/07 03:46 PM
Quote:
I think the bet placement is one in, one out about chin height. Strong hand lead.
How far out should the lead hand be? It seems as though extending it too much would lend towards a side-facing stance, rather than a squarer boxer stance. Or is that what you recommend?
A friend of mine teaches to place your palms on the crown and forehead, leaving the elbows forward to guard the face. Tuck the chin and raise the shoulders to protect the neck, and let the abdominal muscles protect themselves.
IIRC, his philosophy was that by hunching forward and tensing the abs, the stomach will appear an open target to bait in the attacker, and that the ab muscles themselves would do a more than adequate job of protecting the stomach.
I suppose if the attacker does go for the stomach, you're already leaned over his attacking limb to grab and counter or takedown.
-Alan
Posted by: JKogas
Re: Tech thread part 2 - hand position - 02/26/07 05:26 PM
Quote:
Has anyone else noticed that keeping a high guard restricts head/upper body movement somewhat? I feel increased tension in my neck from having to keep the guard up, which makes it harder to keep the head and shoulders mobile.
All rules are made to be broken. When I tell people that they should keep their hands high, this is usually because they don't spend nearly enough hours in sparring to where they can play more of an attribute based game.
Then I will tell them that there's a time and a place for everything. Slipping and other evasive movements ARE easier as you move your hands accordingly.
For example, I'm an orthodox lead fighter. When I slip the jab to the outside, my left hand drops to mid chest. It feels more comfortable and natural doing so.
Nothing wrong with that at all.
-John
Posted by: Chen Zen
Re: Tech thread part 2 - hand position - 02/26/07 09:45 PM
Sntint,
To answer your question, Id say about halfway out.
Ive seen many people use the posture you describe. I wouldnt recommend it to everyone. First, if you strike, your hand has farther to travel to the opponent, slowing down your punch. It also has further to travel back, slowing your defense, or second attack. Also, a quick jab or well placed uppercut will get past the elbows and to your head. The third flaw with it, IMO, is the lack of protection on the abs. For your stance to work your abs have to be very strong, most people never achieve that. And perhaps a punch wont always break through, but what about the one that does? The one that catches you as your breathing out, or what happens if they hit you several times, or you take a kick or knee? You see, it leaves to many variables.
Posted by: ButterflyPalm
Re: Tech thread part 2 - hand position - 02/27/07 06:44 AM
Quote:
That said, I lean towards the Crane stance from Karate Kid
If we are talking about the feet here, I've also perfected the "Ali Shuffle" which has better visual appeal when done with the hands down than held up.
Posted by: Isshinryukid4life
Re: Tech thread part 2 - hand position - 02/27/07 09:47 AM
I Know I'm a little late on posting this,However some people on this forum believe that sparring in the gym/dojo is the equivalent or same is if fight on the street.
There are times in a SD or whaen the situation calls for it to sidestep/parry,ADvancing your position for a strike & keeping out of hharms way,Thus when I move my hands...My head is also moving.
Also,Why would my hands be in one position?Sure,sometimes it depends In a SD scenario where the hands should be,Or why not try moving your hands rapidly in order to confuse your adversary.
Posted by: AndrewGreen
Re: Tech thread part 2 - hand position - 02/27/07 02:44 PM
Quote:
Also,Why would my hands be in one position?Sure,sometimes it depends In a SD scenario where the hands should be,Or why not try moving your hands rapidly in order to confuse your adversary.
You mean like doing the chicken dance?
Posted by: Chen Zen
Re: Tech thread part 2 - hand position - 03/01/07 12:18 AM
My hands are almost always moving, however, that isnt and shouldnt have anything to do with my head. You can slip, bob or sway without dropping your gaurd.
Posted by: JKogas
Re: Tech thread part 2 - hand position - 03/03/07 11:13 AM
Quote:
I Know I'm a little late on posting this,However some people on this forum believe that sparring in the gym/dojo is the equivalent or same is if fight on the street.
To whom would you be referring?
Explain the differences and how such differences affect hand/arm placement.
-John
Posted by: ExCon
Re: Tech thread part 2 - hand position - 03/03/07 12:07 PM
Quote:
Quote:
some people on this forum believe that sparring in the gym/dojo is the equivalent or same is if fight on the street.
Explain the differences and how such differences affect hand/arm placement.
I haven’t read the entire thread so I don’t know the first poster’s position, but if you don’t mine, I’d like to jump in with my two cents.
From my experience (yours might be different) parrying works better in the gym than on the street (the gloves make the difference). So for me dropping parrying as a defensive technique in favor of other defensive techniques caused my hand placement to change naturally (since my arms were being used differently now).
Posted by: MattJ
Re: Tech thread part 2 - hand position - 03/03/07 12:31 PM
Quote by ExCon -
Quote:
From my experience (yours might be different) parrying works better in the gym than on the street (the gloves make the difference).
My experience is different. I have trained sparring without gloves a bit, and gloves do not make a big difference - if anything, gloves make it HARDER to parry (since it is more difficult to accurately judge when first contact is being made with gloves).
Posted by: ExCon
Re: Tech thread part 2 - hand position - 03/03/07 01:23 PM
Quote:
My experience is different. I have trained sparring without gloves a bit,
I’ve always sparred with gloves on. I’ve found that most people aren’t interested in sparring without gloves.
On the other hand I’ve found parrying in a street fight can sometimes result in damaged hands (fists braking/spraining fingers, etc.) I’ve never heard of this happening while sparring with gloves on.
Posted by: MattJ
Re: Tech thread part 2 - hand position - 03/03/07 01:32 PM
Quote:
I’ve always sparred with gloves on. I’ve found that most people aren’t interested in sparring without gloves.
So have I. 
Quote:
On the other hand I’ve found parrying in a street fight can sometimes result in damaged hands (fists braking/spraining fingers, etc.) I’ve never heard of this happening while sparring with gloves on.
Hmmm..... are you talking about blocking (hard) or parrying (soft)? Hard to see how you could hurt your hand in parrying. I very rarely use blocks for the reason that you mentioned - parries are much safer.
Block = takes incoming strike at a perpendicuar angle with force
Parry = takes incoming strike at a more parallel angle with little force
Posted by: JKogas
Re: Tech thread part 2 - hand position - 03/03/07 01:43 PM
Quote:
From my experience (yours might be different) parrying works better in the gym than on the street (the gloves make the difference).
It's merely an issue of timing.
Quote:
I’ve always sparred with gloves on. I’ve found that most people aren’t interested in sparring without gloves.
Have you tried the smaller MMA gloves? They are the cross between bare knuckle and boxing gloves. Virtually ALL techniques you would use when bareknuckle are available when wearing MMA gloves and you aren't limited to the extent you are when wearing boxing gloves.
Thus you CAN practice parrying. It's not that difficult to do. Keeping the proper distance is the main thing (being just outside of range). I find that parrying is pretty easy when you do that (and I've gone from bareknuckle, to MMA gloves to boxing gloves). The differences aren't that great and as Matt mentioned, it can actually be easier when you have full use of the hand.
Quote:
On the other hand I’ve found parrying in a street fight can sometimes result in damaged hands (fists braking/spraining fingers, etc.) I’ve never heard of this happening while sparring with gloves on.
Keeping the fingers bent and the hand slightly cupped will go a long way to prevent this.
-John
Posted by: ExCon
Re: Tech thread part 2 - hand position - 03/03/07 03:42 PM
Quote:
Hmmm..... are you talking about blocking (hard) or parrying (soft)? Hard to see how you could hurt your hand in parrying. I very rarely use blocks for the reason that you mentioned - parries are much safer.
Block = takes incoming strike at a perpendicuar angle with force
Parry = takes incoming strike at a more parallel angle with little force
Hi MattJ
I’m definitely talking about parrying. The thing is “street fighting” is sloppier than sparring is and some of my parries become unintentional blocks.
Quote:
Have you tried the smaller MMA gloves?
Since MMA gloves won’t be available to me in a self defense situation and I’m most interested in SD I prefer to train without them.
Quote:
It's merely an issue of timing.
I know
Quote:
Keeping the fingers bent and the hand slightly cupped will go a long way to prevent this.
I know
Could be a case of me just sucking at parrying, well like Bruce Lee I’ve discarded what doesn’t work for me and kept what has. I find footwork and head movement work much better for me .
If parrying works for you stick with it!
Posted by: falconhunter2020
Re: Tech thread part 2 - hand position - 08/15/07 11:15 PM
I keep my lead hand up in a fist with my forearm facing out, fist at the bridge of my nose. I keep my rear hand in a fist at my solar plexus. I generally stand in a T stance, looking over my lead shoulder.
Posted by: Ironfoot
Re: Tech thread part 2 - hand position - 03/31/08 12:53 PM
If, half-way to the target, my strike looks like it won't get in, THEN and only then is it a fake.
Posted by: Neko456
Re: Tech thread part 2 - hand position - 03/31/08 01:13 PM
Initaly its the open hand fence trying to talk him down.
When that doesn't work and I can't pre-empt him its high guard with my mod sanchin stance protecting my lower body lower from strikes countered by tai-sabaki, footwork and knee or foot jams.
I try bob, weave and strike in between unless they are runners which in that case I attack there lower body with sweeps/kicks imbalancing and striking high to low with my hands, elbows or whatevers open.
In close my goal is to slip behind them and dump them on their head and pound them. If that doesn't work its just control with pushes and pulls and make them submit with rapid heavy strikes or KO them with whatever it takes. Defense/hand position is only apart of offense they are not separate they are one.
Posted by: Big_Rob
Re: Tech thread part 2 - hand position - 03/31/08 02:50 PM
Quote:
Quote:
I Know I'm a little late on posting this,However some people on this forum believe that sparring in the gym/dojo is the equivalent or same is if fight on the street.
To whom would you be referring?
Explain the differences and how such differences affect hand/arm placement.
-John
I'm responding to the question "Whats the difference between a street fight and sparring in reference to hand position." Some of the response may seem off topic, this is because the post is taken from an article I wrote for my website.
Sport Vs. Street
The major difference is Awareness, consent and preparation. During a street encounter you do not have access to these things in the same way you do in a sportive event. An important thing to understand is that awareness, consent and preparation go hand in hand and overlap in many areas. When entering a sporting event you are aware of your attacker and know that there exists only “1” attacker which causes critical focus, during critical focus you see nothing but your opponent. In the street losing your awareness of others and your surroundings could be life threatening. You also know when the bell rings or the ref says go you are going to attack. You know your attackers goals and desires, you know what he wants and what he is going to do to get it. You also know that when the bell rings at the end of the round you can go back to your corner.
You assume that when you tap or get knocked out the ref will come over and stop the fight. You assume that your opponent’s corner men and the audience are not going to jump in while your back is turned. You are also aware that next week your opponent and his friends will not jump you in the parking lot while you are leaving the office to go home for the day. You are also aware that there will be no weapons involved. When your opponent attacks he knows that it’s acceptable and you know it’s acceptable to fight back and you are aware of the consequences of doing so. You also assume that he will not bite you, poke you in the eye, rip out throat, tear of an ear, break your fingers, hold you down and rape you afterwards, tie you up and torture you and after he’s done with you steal you wallet and find your family and torture them.
With a sportive event you have the opportunity to prepare for the event, you have met your opponent and you know the rules and regulations involved in the event. During a sportive event you may experience an adrenal dump but not to the same degree you will experience during a violent street attack. Most times you experience more adrenalin release during public speaking then during a sporting event. The A-dump + fear + exertion = accelerated acidic lactation. So for the power lifters out there who think that "A street fight last only a few seconds" Your heart rate might be close to max and you muscles maybe out of Oxygen and fatigued due to lactic acidosis even before you throw the first shot due to anxiety, fear, attempted escape, ect.
You may finish the fight feeling close to dead then have to escape out of the area dragging a friend to the nearest phone booth, bathroom or hospital while you hold closed a knife wound. This is not as glamorous as shaking your sparring partners hand and going to your gym bag for you extra large bottled spring water or going to the post fight press conference with your entourage. The good thing about understanding these concepts is that you can use them to your advantage during a conflict.
Understanding Stress
Stress can effect people in a variety of ways and for a Varity of reasons, some people experience stress at work, some feel stress when driving a car, some people feel stress watching a scary movie. The stress we are dealing with during a confrontation is what most people call “Fight or Flight Syndrome”. This is when the body involuntarily releases stress hormones which cause the adrenal glands to secrete hormone, in some people it can be a slow release causing them to get nervous and shaky and in others it can be a huge dump causing them to freeze and lose cognitive ability.
The purpose of an adrenaline dump is to turbo charge your body making you stronger and faster then you would normally be, but there are side effects. During the adrenaline release phase many things are affected, most noted are Vision, Cognitive processing and complex motor skills. According to police psychologist Alexis Artwohl, Ph.D. The following may occur during adrenaline stress syndrome.
Tunnel vision – 70% of your peripheral vision vanished and you experience critical focus on the perceived threat
Diminished auditory perception - sounds seem muffled or non existent
Automatic pilot – Your body response to threats automatically via the reptilian brain
Heightened Visual clarity – You were capable of seeing things or details that you normally would not be able to see or notice
Time Distortion – things seem to move slowly yet the incident seemed to happen so fast.
Intrusive distracting thoughts – thoughts not directly related to the current event entering your mind for no apparent reason
Temporary paralysis – freezing from fear
Pre-Contact
Often misunderstood and ignored, this is the most important aspect of the conflict. Most conflicts start 20 minutes before the first punch is thrown fro example you walk into a bar and a man stares at you from across the bar. You look back and give him a nasty look, you have just escalated the situation by disrespecting your attacker and attacking his ego within 20 minutes you will be confronted and attacked.
A similar situation might be you walk into a bar and a man stares at you from across the bar. You look back and give him a vulnerable look, you have just escalated the situation you gave your opponent the green light to abuse you and 20 minutes from now will be confronted.
Understanding the pre-contact phase will cause you to address the above situation differently. Now you walk into a bar and a man stares at you from across the bar. You look back and take notice of him but turn away with out looking weak and with out looking confrontational, you have just taken the first step towards de-escalating the situation and 20 minutes from now you will be prepared for a confrontation should it occur, however your new attacker will not be prepared for you as he now has no ability to judge you, typically resulting in him looking for a new target he is more comfortable with. If your opponent confronts you and decides to speak with you this means a few things. The aggressor has an actually issue to resolve, he is not ready to fight and needs to work himself up or he is attempting to distract you and facilitate an ambush.. When you are confronted and dealing with your opponent verbally you must listen to him and assume what he is saying is true. Then attempt to find out how it is possible that it is true. By doing this you can communicate on his terms and have a greater chance of de-escalating the situation. If the attacker wants something you must determine exactly what that want is, you should ask him question, keeping his mind engaged will prevent him from striking. Once you have determined what your attacker wants you must make an effort to give it to him. If you decide you cannot or chose not to give him what he wants then you will verbally dangle his wants in his face till you can find a reasonable way out of the situation. There will be times where you can become demonstrative and attempt to scare your opponent or make them feel like it is not worth the struggle take the confrontation to the physical level. If you decide to act demonstrative you should always give your opponent a way out of the situation while saving face. If not his/her ego will kick in forcing them to follow through. If the situation has reached a point where your opponent will not respond positively to you confronting him then you must assume a submissive role. During the submissive role you must never threaten or challenge your opponent. The purpose of utilizing a submissive/passive attitude is the element of surprise. When your opponent feels you are vulnerable he will not be ready for you to attack him. He will stay loose and open enabling you to more easily catch him off guard. This also applies in multiple attacker situations. Even after attacking the first opponent you can again become submissive and draw in any other attackers.
When using a passive/negotiation stance you will want to mirror your opponents hand position while not looking threatening. Similarly you will want to maintain natural movements with your hands, not looking stiff or combative. Your goal is to protect your centerline while maintaining a position that facilitates interception of your opponent’s energy which will typically be a result of your natural reflexive response.
Posted by: Zach_Zinn
Re: Tech thread part 2 - hand position - 03/31/08 03:43 PM
Nicely said Ed, I agree with the distinction between an ego-based fight and one where someone is out to hurt you more than just humiliate you.
I seem to favor a higher and fairly tight guard in sparring, but on t3h str33t who knows, the few times i've been in dangerous altercations I wasn't thinking alot about my guard, or anything else.
Personally I am not comfortable with the idea of using feints in anything but sparring.
Oops jsut realized the age of the thread lol, sorry.