Tech thread part 1 - head movement

Posted by: MattJ

Tech thread part 1 - head movement - 02/24/07 10:49 AM

How many folks here practice or have been shown anything in the way of head movement? In one of my heavy bag video sequences, I was (rightly) called out on lack of head movement. I have started to work some more into my training, but my original style (AKK) did not really emphasize it. By 'head movement', I am referring to slipping, ducking, bob'n'weave, etc.

I feel that head movement is very critical in avoiding shots, as you can't block everything. Being able to 'roll' with strikes that actually hit you is maybe even more important, IMHO.

Do any of you practice deceptive head movement (faking)? Tilting the head one direction while really setting up a strike from the other?

Let's hear your views.
Posted by: Taison

Re: Tech thread part 1 - head movement - 02/24/07 11:03 AM

Yes.

As a boxing based striker, I have to use it.

As a grappler, it opens up opportunities for throws and takedowns.

Yes.

-Taison out
Posted by: Chen Zen

Re: Tech thread part 1 - head movement - 02/24/07 12:12 PM

me too. This is something that should be worked with your footwork drills.
Posted by: Supremor

Re: Tech thread part 1 - head movement - 02/24/07 04:07 PM

Yeah, I practice slipping, bobbing and weaving etc. However, I wouldn't call that head movement, I call it upper body movement. I try to keep my chin tucked and move from the waist.
Posted by: Dereck

Re: Tech thread part 1 - head movement - 02/25/07 03:33 PM

Most definitely but not as often as we should. Hard to break up the curriculum to include TKD, BJJ, clinches/knees/elbows, punching and then mixing it all together; not to mention self defense. Unless you go everyday then it is hit and miss when you will do that training again.

Head movement works well for most training with the same techniques used in self defense to avoid and blocking punches. Just the slightest movement of your head can make the difference of being KO'd. Understanding it isn't just your head moving but also your upper body.
Posted by: Ames

Re: Tech thread part 1 - head movement - 03/28/07 08:20 PM

I said 'yes', but it doesn't look anything like a boxer. In Aikijujutsu our body is always held in a deceptive manner, and sometimes that includes the head. The head is often held one way in order to fake to the other.
Posted by: Ed_Morris

Re: Tech thread part 1 - head movement - 03/29/07 01:36 AM

not anymore, so I put 'No'. Too many other things to consciously work on.

feigns, bobs and weaves - sure, when you are facing off with someone. I'm not working on that range right now, so I care less what my head is doing and care more how to control his.
Posted by: danny81

Re: Tech thread part 1 - head movement - 07/20/07 04:50 PM

what about the guys who constantly move there head. in a rhythmic motion
Posted by: Gavin

Re: Tech thread part 1 - head movement - 07/21/07 05:14 AM

I find it quite surprising that no-ones mentioned the roll of the head in power generation. Most who are familiar with throwing and take downs will know the old saying about where the head goes the body will follow. In neck cranks you've probably noticed that once you've taken the neck you destroy their structure and ability to move their body mass. When we strike we transfer body mass and this requires access to our center of gravity and balance. The position of the head plays a fundamental roll in balance and our structure. I put money more of you are using your head a lot more than you realize!
Posted by: MattJ

Re: Tech thread part 1 - head movement - 07/21/07 09:14 AM

Gav, I'm not too proud to admit that I'm not sure what you are talking about.

Do you mean using the head as the intiator in a torquing sequence (head, shoulders, waist, etc) for strikes? I usually think of strikes as coming from the bottom up ie; legs, waist, shoulders, arms, etc.

I do spinning back fists (and kicks) by rotating the head first, then the upper body, and using the "unwinding" to add torque to those.

For most other strikes, I think of the shoulders as moving the head along. But perhaps that is just semantics. I would be curious to hear more detail about what you mean.
Posted by: Gavin

Re: Tech thread part 1 - head movement - 07/21/07 10:02 AM

Remember this little kid that was posted over in the Boxing forum a while back?

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=49z07SC565E

Great little example. Some of his crosses and body hooks show some great head movement to leverage into the shots. Theres a concept thats probably been discussed before about not being double weighted. When we walk our centre of balance swaps between feet as we place all the weight over one foot freeing the other to lift and step...thus bringing the body mass forwards. I like to use head butts as a great example to demonstrate this example. Most people head butt by whipping their neck when really it should be driven by the body...but it is the movement of body weight that generates the power to more or less "ram" the head it the target. If you take a natural fighting stance and then put all your weight on the back leg you'll probably notice your head over (or somewhere close) to your back foot. Now moving the body weight into the front foot brings the head forward being dragged by the body weight. So I suppose your initiator analogy is pretty cool.

I find though that peoples stances are usually too wide or too long to be able to effectively move their body mass into the feet. IMHO you should be able to get your head over either foot without loosing balance. If we go back to that little kid when he dumps in power shots you'll see him shift his weight completely from one foot to the other. Hence why you should be able to generate power off slips and ducks....or anytime you move your body mass.

Probably doesn't make any sense...very hard to convey in writing.
Posted by: MattJ

Re: Tech thread part 1 - head movement - 07/21/07 10:48 AM

Ahh....I think I get you now. When you say "get your head over your (front or back) foot", that makes sense to me. Beginners sometimes lose their balance by throwing their heads too far over their feet, in either direction. I used to tell people (when striking) to not let their head go forward beyond their knees, or backwards past their heel, as a rule. Always exceptions, of course, but as a rule it worked pretty well to help folks maintain their balance.

AKK uses a principle called "breaking the horizon", which involves forcing the opponent to bend forwards or backwards (Hey! Get your mind out of the gutter! ), to effect takedowns or control of the opponent's arms and legs.

Thanks for the detail, Gav.
Posted by: matxtx

Re: Tech thread part 1 - head movement - 07/21/07 05:28 PM

http://www.morrisnoholdsbarred.co.uk/tips.htm

Here is an article on the importance of head movement in martial arts.Its a big part of the 'morris method'.
Posted by: Gavin

Re: Tech thread part 1 - head movement - 07/23/07 11:50 AM

I hadn't actually read that article on Steve's website. Very much enjoyed it. Over the past year or so I've been really investigating the role of the head and it's roll as an initiator, a stabilizer and indicator of movement and I haven't even begun to scratch the surface. That article is a lot to digest but there are tons of 'ideas' contained within it. I had the pleasure of meeting Steve a few months ago and have to say its an experience I'd recommend every MA tried to get. I took a couple of Steve's low round kicks he mentions in the article at very low power and they are devastating. A very unique and insightful man and a total gentleman as well. About a week afterwards he even took the time to phone me to explain in more depth some of his theories...a very intense and wonderfully insightful man. And he doesn't move too badly for a 63 year old either!

If anyone is interested in training with Steve he runs regular sessions in London which are detailed on his website. Also my Sifu Steve Rowe has hosted two courses at his Dojo in Chatham, Kent and my friend Jon Law has hosted two at his dojo in Birmingham...all of them highly rated. Not sure if there are any more planned, but they'll be announced on here if they are:

http://shikon.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=2
Posted by: Gavin

Re: Tech thread part 1 - head movement - 08/01/07 09:36 AM

Matt,

Found this amongst Steve Morris's youtube clips. This is his take on head movement and he hits like a canon.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-G8GTo7hCo
Posted by: corky

Re: Tech thread part 1 - head movement - 09/07/11 02:57 AM

At this stage of my training, not often. Most of the focus is based circling the upper body off the hips...like a stick of bamboo.