...

CNN.com only has a video story on it so I don't have a direct link for you, but there have been two arrests already over this video. If I remember correctly the kids were forced to fight each other to (pardon the paraphrasing) "learn how to fight on the street when they get older"

Several people above asked to remove the post and that it has nothing to do with martial arts. Well, it has almost everything to do with martial arts. These are the kind of morons you may have to defend yourself against one day, or the kind of thug that may break into your home. The fact is these idiots are becoming more and more trained every day, and more prone to violence.

But is it human? No. The kids should be taken away from their parents.

What part of it was martial arts related?

I agree with KJ63. Other "stupidity" posts have had one thing in common - age. This is the first one that I have seen that really shows how some people are indoctrinated into the "predator" mindset. Teens and college boys are many times hard along the (wrong) path, and we wonder "why". Here it is. Martial arts is often touted as a path to personal development and moral character. This video shows what happens in the beginning when violence is taught with total moral abandonment. The OPPOSITE of martial arts training as I know it.

While extremely disturbing, this is something that should not be covered up because we don't want to see it.

I watched about 10 seconds and turned it off. I have to say though, after reading the thread, it had the "Car Wreck" effect with me. I knew I shouldn't look, but I did any way.

VDJ

It never amazes me to see these things anymore. Hopefully the right people will see this and those children will be put in a proper home.

MattJ,
You hit the nail right on the head, and took it in the exact direction I was headed: Predator Mindset.

We are an aging society, meaning there are less young people today than the baby-boomers of the previous generation, yet violent crimes in young people is at an all time high. In almost every country it has at least doubled while in others it has increased as much as 5 fold. Never in recorded peacetime history have we had a greater rate of people attempting to kill off members of its own society. Why is this happening? There are several reasons and this video may explain more than a few.

Why does this video differ from the others? MattJ touched on some of them. You must take into account the very young age of the kids compared to other videos of teens or adults. Think about this: What we learn in our younger years cannot be unlearned. Then add both the classical and operant conditioning that is present in this video. Now am I suggesting that people go crazy posting this kind of idiotic stuff? Of course not, but I’m not going to write it off as not having any value at all. This may not have even been the intent of Mr_Heretik when he posted it, but it is still a good example.

What part of this is martial arts related? Anyone who finds themselves in an altercation or self-defense situation should know what they can come up against. I’m not suggesting you may come up against this 8 year old kid, but someone may run into this kid 10 years from now. If you are not prepared mentally, or do not have the correct intent when someone with this type of mindset focuses on you, then chances are no matter how much training you’ve had, you will fail. Now for most of us that may be hard to admit but after spending several years in law enforcement I’ve seen it.

Derek,
I would like to meet the person who is trying to fool themselves into believing they are not training for self-defense when they train in martial arts. Now this may not be the driving force behind why some people take MA and it may not be what started a person training in MA, but everyone who does MA, trains in self-defense. Whether you are doing a technique on a person who is attacking you, or by visualizing someone attacking, you are training self-defense. Stimulus response, stimulus response, stimulus response… attempting to condition a response to a specific attack or situation by definition is training in self-defense.

IMHO the problem with martial arts today is that students are not taught the mental and physiological aspects of a confrontation. How their bodies will respond, their mindset, and the predator’s mindset. Giving someone the physical tools is only half the battle, and as a MA instructor if that is all I have given my students then I have failed them. It would be like me giving a kid a gun with no bullets and tell him to rob a store; he may pull it off, but then again it may be just enough to get him killed.

I apologize for the length of this post, and to Lt. Col. Dave Grossman for repeating some of his material.

KJ63, you're entirely correct.

"They" are the preditors & "we" (law-abiding citizens) are the prey. They grow-up & live in a subculture that perpetuates the preditor mind-set. This is a necessity because when they're eventually arrested & sent to Jail/Prison, they must survive. They have prepared for that eventaulity.

We, on the other hand, don't forsee prison in our futures & it's often a stretch to envision becoming a victim of a violent attack. The fact is that the majority of people are never attacked but we (MA-ists) take steps toward ensuring our own safety.

I agree that most (including my) MA training is comprable to handing someone a gun w/o ammo but the problem is always a question of liability. To train a student using a greater level of Preditor consciousness requires real many-against-one training sessions. The chances for injury are too great considering the liklihood of being attacked.

In fact, LE academy's require the LEO candidates to wear protective vests when training in (for example) gun-retention drills. Strikes to the face are also disallowed. It's as real as it can be w/o becoming REAL.

I don't see a way of training kids in this manner w/o resorting to what was done on the video. Also, most adults who currently train would find this beyond what they'd be willing to practice. Fact is that the adrenalin dump changes everything & there's no way of duplicating it w/o the perception that a real threat is about to occur.

The only way to experience real confrontation & physical aggression is to take it to become a LEO, work in corrections, become a doorman or (in my case) psychiatric intensive treatment units. Anywhere you must enounter & control non-compliant, angry, antisocial individuals.

I apologize for the thesis (but I feel better now).

owari

To connect the thesis w/ the topic - I believe that the video, as reprehensible as it is, shows how the preditor mind-set started. It's a way to understand your enemy (which is the most important in ALL SD situations). Yes, those 8 y/o kids will be coming after you in 2014 (or sooner).

If I may point out, it is being "assumed" that these kids will grow up to be hoodlums or predators due to this poor up bringing and that is wrong. This is stereotyping which we owe these kids better then what their family did with them, otherwise the chain will never be broken.

Weak people who refuse to make changes in the life for the better will follow the same pattern from their upbringing and surroundings where as those who use their brain and make better choices for themselve do not fall victim to this. I could be a child abuser now but I'm not because I could see the difference between right and wrong though I was brought up with this.

SO ... these kids are "not" preditors nor will we ever know if they will be.

When did stereotyping become a bad word? Stereotyping is a generalization & generalizing is valid. It never meant ALL -no one said it did. No, we don't know these kids personally & we can't predict their future but generally speaking, these kids (& thousands like them) are on a path they can't or won't get off of.

If you're using your own personal story of victory over adversity as proof that the stereotype is incorrect, I'd like to inform you that you're the exception to the rule. More kudos to you. But the exception doesn't prove the rule.

It's not up to us to deny the stereotype for PC sake. We need to wake up & accept things as they are. It's one reason I train & teach.

I'm a mental health professional w/ jailed/recently released inmates & if I didn't have some expectation that @ least a couple of them would change for the positive, I wouldn't do what I do. But I also know that 90% of them will have a dirty test @ least 4x/yr or get arrested/violated within 18 mos. At the same time, I have 4 clients who are exceptions to the rule & they're leading happy, reasonably successful & stable lives.

Finally, it isn't a matter of weakness (or strength) that determines if a person can change. Just as you can't point to ony 1 thing that is responsible for your happiness. There are many things that contribute to your overall happiness & the same goes for changing one's life for the better. Saying "weak people who refuse" is also a contridiction in concepts. If they are "weak", they CAN'T change; if they refuse to change, they aren't weak - just prefer things as they are over the unknown (no guarantee for their effort).

Your point is overly simplistic.

owari

Still difficult to imagine this kind of thing. Bump.

M,

I deleted your post as it violates the forum rules regarding posting political views and politics in general. Although interesting I can not allow it.

Please keep this in mind going forward. Note this is also a rule for any off-topic forums contained here at FA.com

Fascinating opinion, however, I do wonder how true it is. The US is still host to many of the finest academic institutions in the world. Or is it perhaps that education simply isn't that important in the states? Ah, well, I'm sure I'll find out when I arrive.

Awe shucks, we'd best leave our think'n to the intellectuals. Us common folk don't understand issues and stuff. Nicholos is smart, he uses big words and if I don't think like he does, I mussn't be educated enough.

What does this have to do with the original post?

What does this have to do with anything?

You need pimpslapped!!

Kids ...

I think all we can do is hope that in the future, those two boys meet someone significant in their lives or are a part of a life changing and mind altering event. Frankly, I wish them the best.