Kyokushinkai and Tai Chi?

Posted by: MattJ

Kyokushinkai and Tai Chi? - 11/02/06 05:42 PM

Interesting article purporting a relationship between Tai Chi and Kyokushinkai karate. Apparently Mas Oyama sparred with a Tai Chi master named Mr Chen, who (according to the article) defeated Oyama.

"The long duel that followed was like a classic battle between the snake & the crane. Mr Chen was able to neutralize all the Karate attacks he could deliver, using smooth circular, arc-like movement & techniques. On the other hand, when Mr Chen counter-attacked, it was with a force that could not have come from a man his age. It was all Oyama could do to evade them, using linear, sometimes awkward movements. Eventually, seeing no sign of fatigue in the old man, & having exhausted all his techniques, Oyama gave up, admitting that he could not beat Mr Chen. Mr Chen laughed & thanked Oyama for giving him such a great workout, inviting him to stay for a few days to learn more. Oyama asked to be left alone for a short while to contemplate this defeat."

rest of the article -

http://crane.50megs.com/index6j.htm

Anyone else ever hear of this?
Posted by: Leo_E_49

Re: Kyokushinkai and Tai Chi? - 11/02/06 08:30 PM

Wow, that sounds dubious.
Posted by: Dobbersky

Re: Kyokushinkai and Tai Chi? - 11/03/06 08:37 AM

Osu, and Xie xie,

I know know why Ashihara is so different to Kyuokushin and it actually makes sense in what the article declares with the use of Sabaki etc. I am yet again Humbled

Posted by: RazorFoot

Re: Kyokushinkai and Tai Chi? - 11/03/06 08:50 AM

I have found that stories of this nature are often times just propaganda to inflate what ever style it makes look good. A prominent MA of the time is stated to have come to whatever school to fight, loses, and goes home with his tail between his legs. The school which "beat" him, uses this as a motivating tool for students and a draw to pull new students in. Of course when the confrontations happen, it was a private match between these two where no one else was admitted due to it being a private matter between these two rivals. Sorry, not convinced.

One instructor that I had trained with was supposedly good at fighting because of the many fights he had as a street thug where he perfected his art, some were to the death.


There are so many similar stories floating around that it is hard to know what to believe but I have a difficult time believing that Mas Oyama couldn't lay a finger on someone???? And that now disgusted from his attempts, he admits defeat??? Yeah, that coincides with every thing I have ever read about the man. He sounds like someone who would quit a fight and give up out of frustration...I don't think so.

Scottie
Posted by: TeK9

Re: Kyokushinkai and Tai Chi? - 11/04/06 10:33 PM

Reminds me of the time I fought an Orca whale over the last peice of fish. Well let me tell you, my spin kicks lacked seriously when contending with such a powerful tail kick. HOwever, I was quick to jam a rock in the blow hole and was able to submit the Orca with a rear naked flipper choke.

After that fght I went into seclusion for a couple of weeks and wen I reimerge I added belly splashes to my taekwondo style and camoflage war paint.

-Tek

P.S. look for more details with pics on the up comming Black Belt magazine comming out next month.
Posted by: Prizewriter

Re: Kyokushinkai and Tai Chi? - 11/05/06 02:40 PM

Quote:

Reminds me of the time I fought an Orca whale over the last peice of fish. Well let me tell you, my spin kicks lacked seriously when contending with such a powerful tail kick. HOwever, I was quick to jam a rock in the blow hole and was able to submit the Orca with a rear naked flipper choke.

After that fght I went into seclusion for a couple of weeks and wen I reimerge I added belly splashes to my taekwondo style and camoflage war paint.

-Tek

P.S. look for more details with pics on the up comming Black Belt magazine comming out next month.



Ohhhh your quite the Karate Cod...

Hey, how'd that tumble weed get in here?
Posted by: Taison

Re: Kyokushinkai and Tai Chi? - 11/06/06 04:09 AM

Doubt it. Mas Oyama, although I don't like him, was a powerful man. I'd say if he was in a match, it would definitely involve 2 people pretty much beat up. And him giving up of frustration. Doubt it. And then him being fatigued to the point where he couldn't continue. Hello? We're talking about the creator of the "hundred-man kumite". How can he get tired by one tai-chi master??

And Mas Oyama admitting defeat?? HAHA. Doubt it. He was as stubborn as a rock. He wouldn't stop until he won, or until he was knocked out.

-Taison out
Posted by: Dobbersky

Re: Kyokushinkai and Tai Chi? - 11/06/06 08:08 AM

Just to recap, on my last 'statement' and on comments left after mine, I actually was drawn in then, mainly because at the time I was looking for answers as to why Ashiharakai is so different to Kyokushin. I have therefore, after giving it great thought and deliberation;- Mas Oymas, could not have been defeated as he fought many fighers representing many styles throughout his career, and some used the ethos of Sabaki there, like Wado Ryu, Shotokan, JuJitsu and Judo to name a few, Although I dont recall him fighting a Aikidoka

My respects

Posted by: Glockmeister

Re: Kyokushinkai and Tai Chi? - 11/06/06 09:01 AM

Quote:

I have found that stories of this nature are often times just propaganda to inflate what ever style it makes look good. A prominent MA of the time is stated to have come to whatever school to fight, loses, and goes home with his tail between his legs. The school which "beat" him, uses this as a motivating tool for students and a draw to pull new students in. Of course when the confrontations happen, it was a private match between these two where no one else was admitted due to it being a private matter between these two rivals. Sorry, not convinced.




I have to agree with you there. It sounds like propaganda.
Tek 9..That was finny as heck, I'll have to remember that one.
Posted by: RazorFoot

Re: Kyokushinkai and Tai Chi? - 11/06/06 12:37 PM

Quote:

Reminds me of the time I fought an Orca whale over the last peice of fish. Well let me tell you, my spin kicks lacked seriously when contending with such a powerful tail kick. HOwever, I was quick to jam a rock in the blow hole and was able to submit the Orca with a rear naked flipper choke.

After that fght I went into seclusion for a couple of weeks and wen I reimerge I added belly splashes to my taekwondo style and camoflage war paint.

-Tek

P.S. look for more details with pics on the up comming Black Belt magazine comming out next month.



Good thing he didnt hit you with the "dorsal fin flop" or his patented "Blubber Smother". He beat two of the Machados with those moves.

Scottie
Posted by: Prizewriter

Re: Kyokushinkai and Tai Chi? - 11/06/06 01:48 PM

I said "your" in my last post instead of "you're". I am starting to worry about myself.
Posted by: Budoman

Re: Kyokushinkai vs Bagua (not Tai Chi)... - 11/21/13 01:13 PM

The article has the essence of the encounter, but the details are wrong:
Oyama's opponent was Li Ziming, a bagua master, not a tai chi guy. The 'smooth circular, arc-like movement...' is bagua technique, a Chinese martial art based on circularity.

My guess is that the fight ended in a draw, not a defeat for Oyama. Oyama was unable to score, but Li did not knock-down, nor knock-out Oyama either.

The piece about Oyama staying on to study tai chi (or bagua) sounds like fantasy. Have never heard of Oyama modifying Kyokushinkai with tai chi or bagua techniques. There is a circular parry shown in one of Oyama's books, but it bears little resemblance to anything in bagua.

The original link to the article is dead, but you can find it here:
http://www.taiji-bg.com/articles/mixed/m10.htm
Posted by: Dobbersky

Re: Kyokushinkai vs Bagua (not Tai Chi)... - 11/26/13 10:17 AM

I was glad to come back to this thread, I shared it on the Kyokushin Forum I'm on to see if I get some answers I will add them here if they look valid and researched