Deception in MA (pt1) - 'Halls of Fame'

Posted by: Ed_Morris

Deception in MA (pt1) - 'Halls of Fame' - 09/10/06 12:45 AM

This thread is part one of a developing series of 'Deception in the Martial Arts'. The goal is to raise awareness when forum members read someone's credentials listed on a website, or plastered in the dojo. Keep in mind, I use the word 'deception' - which too often points of outright fraud - but unless I explicitly give evidence of fraud, I'm only talking about deception.

Why wait to be a victim? Go with your gut, if you detect deception, get out and have nothing to do with that group or individual before you find out the hard way (by losing time and cash), that the deception was in order to mask the fraud.
That being said...onward...

Part 1. 'The prestigious Hall of Fame'.

Since it seems to be a popular event for soke's, GM's, honerary rank swappers and the like, I thought it would be an interesting project to compile a list of known 'Halls of Fame'.

Notice the subtle differences in wording for these organizations.
ex: "USA Martial Arts Hall of Fame"
is not the same org as "US Martial Arts Hall of Fame"


ACTION MARTIAL ARTS MAGAZINE HALL OF FAME
AFKA hall of fame
Alabama Women's Hall of Fame
American Karate Black Belt Association Hall of Fame
Amerikick Hall of Fame
ATA Black Belt Hall of Fame
Australia WWMA Hall of Fame
BLACK BELT HALL OF FAME
Black Belt Magazine Hall of Fame
Combat Hall of Fame
Cosmopolitan Florida Hall of Fame Martial Arts Brotherhood
Ed Brown’s Masters, Pioneers, and Legends Hall of Fame
Filipino Martial Arts Hall of Fame
Golden Global International Martial Arts Hall of Fame
Global Martial Arts Hall of Fame
GSKA Hall of Fame
International Boxing Hall of Fame
International Black Belt Hall of Fame
International Karate and Kickboxing Hall of Fame
International Karate Hall of Fame
International Martial Arts Hall of Fame
International Martial Arts Black Belt Hall of Fame
International Pro-Am All Styles Martial Arts Hall of Fame
IJJ Hall of Fame, Puerto Rico
Isshin-Ryu Hall Of Fame
Judo Canada Hall of Fame
Jujitsu America’s Black Belt Hall of Fame
Kaju Kenbo Hall of Fame
Karate Hall of Fame
Kenjutsu USA MA Hall of Fame
Kenpo Hall of Fame
Kenpojujitsu Black Belt Hall of Fame
Kids Hall of Fame
Kung Fu Magazine's Hall of Fame
Latin American Martial Arts Hall of Fame
Marine Corps Marathon Hall of Fame
martial arts black belt hall of fame
Martial Arts Hall of Fame
Martial Arts Masters, Pioneers, and Legends Hall of Fame
Masters Hall of Fame
Michigan Karate Hall of Fame
NATIONAL JEWISH SPORTS HALL OF FAME
National Martial Arts Hall of Fame
New England Black Belt Hall of Fame
Nihon To-Jutsu Karate-Do Kai USA MA Hall of Fame
North American Black Belt Hall of Fame
Okinawan Isshin-ryu Karate-do and Kobudo Association´s Hall of Fame
Pennsylvania Karate Hall of Fame
Pioneers and Legends International Martial Art Society Hall of Fame
Soke Grandmaster Hall of Fame
Shojukempo International & International Ryukyukai Hall of Fame
Taekwondo Club Hall of Fame
Talented Youth Martial Arts Hall of Fame
Texas Martial Arts Hall of Fame
UFC Hall of Fame
United International Kung Fu Federation's Hall of Fame
United Martial Artists Association Hall of Fame
United Sokeship Alliance Millenium Hall of Fame
United States Jiu Jitsu Alliance "Hall Of Fame"
United States Karate Instructors Hall of Fame
United States Martial Arts Association International Hall of Fame
UNITED STATES MARTIAL ARTS INTERNATIONAL HALL OF FAME
United States SAMBO Hall of Fame
Universal Martial Arts Hall of Fame
US Hall of Fame Martial Arts
US Martial Arts Hall of Fame
US Martial Arts Association International Hall of Fame
US National Martial Arts Hall of Fame
USA Karate Hall of Fame
USA Martial Arts Hall of Fame
USA Wushu Kungfu Federation's Hall of Fame
Vee-Arnis-Jitsu Hall of Fame
World Christian Martial Arts Hall Of Fame
World Head of Family Sokeship Council Hall of Fame
World Karate hall of Fame
World Karate Union Hall of Fame
World Martial Arts Black Belt Hall of Fame
World Martial Arts Hall of Fame
World Martial Arts Federation Hall of Fame
World Martial Arts Federation Blackbelt Hall of Fame
World Masters Hall of Fame
World Multi Martial Arts Hall of Fame
Worldwide Martial Arts Hall of Fame
World United Martial Arts Alliance Australasian Martial Arts Hall of Fame
WMAL Hall of Fame
Zen Do Kai hall of fame

I assure you, there are many many more. Those are the ones I found just within the first 100 hits of a google search. In fact:
Quote:

Results 1 - 10 of about 958,000 for "hall of fame" +martial.



if anyone has any such award, forgive me if I seem unimpressed.

In most of these, if not, all - the people (yes, there are more than one) nominated awards each year (and there are several categories and sub-categories), had to pay a sometimes heafty 'entry fee' to be considered. {wink wink}

granted, the fee often includes a meal ticket to some leftover hotel buffet...or the higher profile ones can afford renting a hollywood action star for an hour for photo ops.

judging by the photos people put up on websites of some of these hall of fame banquets, I gather the majority are basically a middle-aged white-male "see, I told you I'd be somebody" convention.

that is how they florish, they are ego sellers at top dollar.
Let's say you want to start your own 'Hall of Fame'. No problem, just think of a name....how about 'The middle-aged Japanophile Hall of Fame'. a half-decent plaque/trophy and a kanji certificate are about $50 at cost....then you have a banquet at $20 per head. Then charge $200 per person and you are more than doubling your money for a 2-hour event. It's not fraud when people know exactly what they are getting and agree to it....but it IS deceptive in the way that they try to make it seem more important and prestigious than it really is. The sucker soaking all of this 'noteriety' up, thinks he's just acheived something that is world renown...when if fact, no one otside of Tennesee has even heard of his particular award that is worded to sound as if the whole world coveted this honor. ...now thats deceptive -and like all deception, it's usually more effective on people less bright.

The irony is, halls of fame awards are so common, they only serve to defame each other. The sheer quantity (and growing) of 'hall of fame' award holders each year negate that which they covet...prestige.

If an instructor has one of these polished plaques on the wall of the dojo ...I don't walk, I run. They might be hellava MAists, and I might be missing out of learning something, but way too much ego baggage for my taste.
Posted by: migo

Re: Deception in MA (pt1) - 'Halls of Fame' - 09/10/06 01:52 AM

Nice thread. Even the "reputable" halls of fame, like the UFC Hall of Fame aren't a reliable gauge of ability. Ken Shamrock's in there but we all can see how much he sucks as an instructor from TUF3.
Posted by: Dereck

Re: Deception in MA (pt1) - 'Halls of Fame' - 09/10/06 01:54 AM

Ouch, this is a little off topic but Ken Shamrock was inducted for his efforts in the UFC from its inception and his time put in ... this has nothing to do with his teaching skills.

Sorry Ed for derailing your thread and PLEASE people, keep Ed's topic on track. If you want to discuss other things start a new thread. If you wish Ed, have this and the other post deleted if you like.
Posted by: migo

Re: Deception in MA (pt1) - 'Halls of Fame' - 09/10/06 02:06 AM

It's usually instructors who mention they are in some sort of hall of fame, since that attracts students. Nobody else really needs to mention anything like that, so pointing out discrepancies between inductions and teaching skill is right on topic.
Posted by: laf7773

Re: Deception in MA (pt1) - 'Halls of Fame' - 09/10/06 03:22 AM

Have you personally trained with Ken Shamrock? While i don't agree with how he portrayed or was portrayed in the Ultimate Fighter i have met people who trained with him at his San Diego school that had nothing but positive comments even after leaving. This has nothing to do with the topic, as he is not trying to deceive anyone. His induction was actually based on achievements related to the UFC and not purchased or traded for as in Joe Bob's Hall of Fame. Is he possibly benefiting from his induction? More than likely but how is he deceiving anyone?

Back on topic.

Unfortunately there are unbelievable amounts of people around the world participating in such phony organizations. Some are more blatant than others but unfortunately there are people everyday who fall for these misrepresentations. I'm not sure if this guy is part of any of the organizations mentioned above, didn't really read each one, but even with his blatant lies being so obvious he still manages to run a school near San Diego and maintain a small student base.
http://sokesoto.tripod.com/
Posted by: Ed_Morris

Re: Deception in MA (pt1) - 'Halls of Fame' - 09/10/06 09:38 AM

I wasn't trying to illustrate which halls of fame are 'legit' or not. and if you use the notion 'legitimate by association' as a guidline, then all which list Bruce Lee or Chuck Norris are 'legitimate', yes?

Thats the flaw of perception which are part of the trapping. The 'bait', so to speak.

I forget which one, but I remember coming across a HoF that listed the likes of Miyagi, Funakoshi, Mabuni ...yet weren't even formed until well after their deaths.

The earliest HoF I remember hearing about was Black-belt magazine's during the 70's - they may have even started the trend, I'm not sure. If BB mag is the standard...do any HoF have much credibility? UFC was mentioned, plus Judo has their own...I haven't got a problem with sport HoF's IF they base it solely on sport performance and records. I only included them in the listing because I'm not so sure they base it on competition records alone, plus this isn't a look at legitimacy on a case-by-case....I'm only saying, with hundreds if not thousands of halls of fame's giving awards each year - how special can it be?

so when someone lists a HoF award on their martial resume or displays it prominently on the wall....it's not, in itself, any cause for any great excitement.
Posted by: MattJ

Re: Deception in MA (pt1) - 'Halls of Fame' - 09/10/06 10:14 AM

Quote by Ed Morris -

Quote:

so when someone lists a HoF award on their martial resume or displays it prominently on the wall....it's not, in itself, any cause for any great excitement.



Well said, Ed. I think that is the real issue here. Too many HoF's have diluted whatever the original, noble intent was. The few legit ones are being over-run by the multitude of BS PPH ("pay-per-honor") awards and HoF's.

The problem is, for the beginners, and those without much comparitive knowledge, how do they tell which honors have any merit? Or is too much honoraria itself a warning sign nowadays?
Posted by: TimBlack

Re: Deception in MA (pt1) - 'Halls of Fame' - 09/10/06 12:25 PM

Guys, we're missing a very obvious trick here...

The Fighting Arts Hall of Fame!


I say we start by charging DaDon1 (remember him?) $2000 for a slap up banquet and celebrity guest Timblack - the mysterious, enigmatic and unkown celebrity ninja!
Posted by: wristtwister

Re: Deception in MA (pt1) - 'Halls of Fame' - 09/10/06 06:03 PM

Ed,
JMO, but I think every style out there started some kind of HOF for "their people" and it got out of hand. As you say, the BB HOF was the original one in MA, but everybody got PO'd that "their guy" didn't get in, so they created a vehicle where he was "in the HOF"...

The fakey "nomination" process is done without any standards, just like issuing rank, so it's a matter of whether or not you have the "stuff" on the floor, or whether you're "nominated" by some student who wants his next promotion.

Part of the problem is "isolation" of the styles, and you can't expect the Isshin Ryu guys to know who's prominent in TKD (for instance), or the Wado Ryu guys to know who's prominent in Shotokan, unless they have distinguished themselves nationally or internationally on the "big stage" of martial arts.

Some of the styles have rigorous standards, and others are "at the pleasure of the instructor", so until there is a common standard of both performance and time involved, it will continue to be a "he says, she says" type of situation.
After all the politics I've seen over the last decades, I'm surprised it isn't even more screwed up than it is now.

Years ago, most of the 8th Dans were older than dirt, today, they are already outranked by 30 year olds. "In the real world" titles such as Kyoshi and Hanshi had "times of service attached to a test, and of 2000 applicants, they might issue 3... so they weren't as easily acquired as today... so getting listed on a "HOF" doesn't really take much any more... Find a student needing a promotion and have them nominate you... just be sure to send me an invitation to the "free dinner" that goes with it...

Posted by: Spade

Re: Deception in MA (pt1) - 'Halls of Fame' - 09/10/06 09:46 PM

This reminds me a lot about a trip I had to Mobile.


Me and some freinds went around while we were down there to check out the local dojos, one of the guys we talked to said "I've won the Ishhinryu world championship three times in a row"

At first we thought we had really met someone who had great skill and knowldge.

Well, later we went to another dojo, and talked to someone who defintaly seemed honest and knew what he was talking about, and he said, quote "You know, some of those "World championships", are just mississippi world championships, or just mobile world championships etc..."

This certainly brought things into the light.
Posted by: ShikataGaNai

Re: Deception in MA (pt1) - 'Halls of Fame' *DELETED* - 09/11/06 03:00 AM

Post deleted by JohnL
Posted by: Ed_Morris

Re: Deception in MA (pt1) - 'Halls of Fame' *DELETED* - 09/11/06 06:45 AM

Post deleted by JohnL
Posted by: mskajukenbo

Re: Deception in MA (pt1) - 'Halls of Fame' *DELETED* - 09/12/06 07:45 PM

we get a couple of these 'notifications' every year addressed to our school's chief instructor...claiming he's been inducted into some real original truly legit ma hall of fame...the last one was to be held in la and it was just like you described...lots of cash for the 'dinner' and awards ceremony copied invitations for your school members to attend with place for credit card numbers so they could rsvp by phone
...maybe it might be cheaper to just go to kinkos and make your own official certificate.

the exhaustive list catagories as well as an urging for additional catagory inventions as well as six personal nominations, in one of the induction letters was truly ludicrous...they featured such hof catagories as most improved student, sparring, push ups, class attendance...i will keep the next one for reference and post....i hope not too many were fooled by these efforts!

mskajukenbo


Posted by: Ed_Morris

Re: Deception in MA (pt1) - 'Halls of Fame' - 09/12/06 09:20 PM

thank-you for confirming the jist of the thread...hopefully people will save their money on more important stuff...like... training equipment.
Posted by: wristtwister

Re: Deception in MA (pt1) - 'Halls of Fame' - 09/12/06 10:07 PM

Dear Mr. Morris,
This is to notify you that you've been elected to the "Wristtwister Hall of Fame". Your award is very prestigious, and will be made at the time and place of your choosing (right after your check clears).

In addition to being added to the prestigious list of inductees, you will also be awarded the title of (please send in your request with an additional check as scheduled in the application).

For a nominal fee, all your students can also be recognized and awarded hall of fame honors, beginning with "most accomplished beginner" up to "almost as good as the originator" (again, once your check clears).

Please accept my sincere gratitude for your contributions to the martial arts, the hall of fame, and my soon to be opened HOF bank account... As a "founding member" you will be allowed to order a la carte at your "hall of fame dinner" (for a small additional fee). It will be great to meet you at last, and to cash your... have dinner with you.

You may display your HOF certificate prominently, and refer to it often... It's going to cost you a bundle... uh, it is a very costly award, and printed at our cost (by Kinko's). Actual signatures by masters of the martial arts will be another optional extra, and your certificate will be... in the words of "Mick" (Rocky's trainer)... "a t'ing of beauty".

Congratulations!



Posted by: Ed_Morris

Re: Deception in MA (pt1) - 'Halls of Fame' - 09/12/06 10:17 PM

"First my name in the phonebook...and now THIS! Things are going to start happening to me now."
-Navin Johnson
(steve martin, in 'The Jerk')
Posted by: wristtwister

Re: Deception in MA (pt1) - 'Halls of Fame' - 09/12/06 10:26 PM

Sorry Ed,
just couldn't resist.... your check bounced...



Posted by: Ed_Morris

Re: Deception in MA (pt1) - 'Halls of Fame' - 09/12/06 10:51 PM

well, I wasn't going to go too deep into the comedy aspect of this thread...but
{Ed does 'officer and a gentleman' impression: "I got no where else to go! I got no place else to goooo..."}



Cheezy Hall of Fame certificates and awards:

The printer might have been low on ink...
http://www.samurai-arts.co.nz/World_Karate_Union_Hall_of_Fame.jpg

http://www.aftamartialarts.com/web%20ready%20hall%20of%20fame%20letter.jpg

"On Saturday, May 21st, 2005 Master Joel Bowling
was inducted again into the USA Black Belt hall of fame.
Master Bowling was given the Life Time Achievement Award,
which is rare for someone to receive at the age of 43."
http://www.aftamartialarts.com/web%20ready%20hall%20of%20fame%20picture.jpg
(interesting use of the word 'rare'. lol)

"I'm SOMEBODY!!"
http://www.uwyo.edu/news/show.asp?id=939

http://kickpics.dncsi.com/graphics/KICKPICS_Hall_of_Fame_Notification.jpg

here's one that reads like an Ed McMan sweepstakes winner:
http://www.plumblossom.net/Grandmaster/HallOfFame.html

The HOF banquet: for people who thought two high school proms wasn't enough.
http://www.kumulua.com/site/view/MasterHallofFame.pml;jsessionid=F45D25BC053671166023418FE7EAF584
subcategories:
Most likely to be seen.
Most likely to be performing.
Most likely to be high kicking.
Least likely to be humble.
Most likely to be kicked in the nuts from a 5-year old McStudent.

Hall of 'my shiit dont stink' Fame
http://wmahf.semkhor.com/static/wmahf_splash.html

Hall of 'exploit your kid' Fame
http://www.karateangels.com/fame.html

Sokemon cards: collect 'em all!
http://www.uscra.info/images/hall_of_fame-vladimir.jpg

http://www.warriorquestsociety.com/images/September2004_1.jpg
quote: "How can the life of such a man, be in the palm of some fool's hand?"

EXACTLY. lol
Posted by: wristtwister

Re: Deception in MA (pt1) - 'Halls of Fame' - 09/12/06 11:18 PM

I think all these guys should go into the "bad English skills" and "Pi$$ poor spelling" hall of fame. They have no concept of how to frame a sentence or how to spell words that should be simple enough to understand.

Maybe we should start the "failure to proofread their website information" HOF... it's probably more legitimate than their MA credits...

The ones I love are those that are misspelled and phrased improperly by "DR. so and so"... they must be too smart or accomplished to be bothered by spelling errors...

Posted by: Dereck

Re: Deception in MA (pt1) - 'Halls of Fame' - 09/13/06 02:53 AM

Ed, in my work I have attended quite a few seminars. Sometimes the certificates are in the handout books in the back. Sometimes the certificates are on the back table as you leave. Some even go as far as mailing it to you. No matter what that is all they are ... a piece of paper and mean absolutely nothing ... though I do take pride in the Dale Carnegie 12 week course I took and was awarded by my class members Achievement Award and Personal Progress Award as these were not handed out to everybody and the class nominated you for them.

And like you have pointed out you can download or send away for many of these which further dilutes anything prestigious about awards. Unless it is done by your peers and actually means something and you don't flaunt it or stick it out for everybody to see, then it is meaningless.
Posted by: PaulHart

Re: Deception in MA (pt1) - 'Halls of Fame' - 09/13/06 03:24 AM

I have just been inducted into the "Most Mistakes Made In Life ~ Hall of Fame" Not sure if that makes me really good, or really bad. I have been thinking about seeing a special "Hall of Fame" Counselor, but decided against it after reading that he was inducted into the Psyco Hall of Fame.
Posted by: laf7773

Re: Deception in MA (pt1) - 'Halls of Fame' - 09/13/06 03:33 AM

Really good at being bad?