Youth MMA competition
Posted by: MattJ
Youth MMA competition - 08/23/06 06:17 PM
Opinions on this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1Z5WwBoxOkWhile I am all about resistant training, I really wonder if NHB training is appropriate for kids under, say 12 years old or so. It doesn't look like face strikes are allowed (as far as I can tell), but the submissions are a bit dicey for me.
Posted by: Christie
Re: Youth MMA competition - 08/23/06 07:51 PM
I like that, it's suitable for younger fighters but the video is "not for younger viewers"
I agree, I do not think kids should be fighting like that.
Posted by: Steel91
Re: Youth MMA competition - 08/23/06 08:21 PM
Where are they doing this? I'm interested
Posted by: Dereck
Re: Youth MMA competition - 08/24/06 01:18 AM
I did stuff like this when I was a kid but not under any supervision nor with any real skill. However as a responsible adult I don't think that this is a good idea, at least not at this time. I would dare to guess that these kids are not mature enough for this yet and would see this as a means to continue to fight outside the ring at school and such. I have no problem kids joining martial arts such as Judo or BJJ and stuff where grappling is involved but the punching and kicking with limited equipment just screams injuries and such. They are too much trying to mimic stuff like the UFC that they are forgetting we need kids to grow up first and have the proper maturing to happen before we turn them into thugs. I'm sure that there are a lot of kids that will turn out fine but even if one doesn't due to this then it is not worth it. Sometimes the needs of the few outway the needs of the many.
Posted by: IExcalibui2
Re: Youth MMA competition - 08/24/06 03:27 AM
kids learning martial arts?
kids learning and encouraged to beat each other up?
thes kids arent mature enough to engage in such competition. No sportsman ship is there or professionalism. I mean if 2 of these kids go to school with one another can you imagine what could happen in the yard at recess? Too early to introduce something that could potentially create a violent adult. If the were in highschool I would give it to them, but some of these kids look like they're in the 3rd grade
Posted by: schanne
Re: Youth MMA competition - 08/24/06 09:34 AM
Personally I think it's too much for "kids".
Posted by: kurdt
Re: Youth MMA competition - 08/24/06 09:36 AM
thats some pretty messed up stuff!
those kids look even younger than my bro and they are duking it out! that aint right!
i dont think that im prepared physically and mentally (im getting there slowly) for that stuff and these kids are already at it hmm..
I'd like to point out that TKD sparring is much worse, yet I've never heard anyone complain about that. Don't believe me?
This was a porn link and has been deleted.
Posted by: Dereck
Re: Youth MMA competition - 08/24/06 03:07 PM
Totally disagree that TKD is much worse. Those type of things are far and few and also seem to have more control. They are also wearing more equipment and these are a little bit older kids. Kids as small as the ones fighting in the original video at the level of Taekwondo in yours, they are not that capable. In the MMA video anybody can punch and wrestle and it seems more like a school yard fight with the only rule no punching to the face.
Good on you for thinking TKD was worse, especially when most people think it is patty cake.
Posted by: Crash
Re: Youth MMA competition - 08/25/06 05:47 PM
Kids never really seem to understand that they can seriously hurt each other. I don't know
Posted by: Victor Smith
Re: Youth MMA competition - 08/25/06 09:11 PM
Well Matt after teaching youth for 30 years both are really disgusting answers.
I've seen far better fighting in the local Boys and Girls Club wrestling program, or the local judo program than in that MMA competition. Of course at least we don't have to worry that they could ever hurt anyone with those punches, thank god their instructor doens't know how to really teach someone to hit when they're on the ground.
As for the TKD, well anyone who wants their kids to learn an art that teaches them to keep thier arms hanging and not learn how to block really should be put up for child abuse.
I don't care whether adults choose to learn not to block, but there could be a strong case of child abuse (both for the parents and the instructors) for allowing young people to get hurt because of dumb rules and training.
But I guess people don't care if children get hurt. TKD outnumbers most of us.
The issue isn't children shouldn't learn how to fight. It's just they should learn how to fight with focus, technique, control and intelligent respones.
BTW, I found it much safer for youth sparring when there was no safety gear. The safety gear has caused more injuries than bare hand sparring ever did. But my surgeon made the point, the risk of infectious injury was more important to end than keeping the strongest technique.
It's a far more difficult balancing act to teach today.
Posted by: MattJ
Re: Youth MMA competition - 09/19/06 12:32 PM
Found this on BudoSeek, about a young MMA/BJJ "phenom":
http://videos.gabcity.com/Amazing-Drake-Dudley.aspx
Posted by: migo
Re: Youth MMA competition - 09/19/06 06:57 PM
Equipment is overrated, headgear doesn't really help beyond preventing cuts, but there's no less risk of concussions.
It's fine what they're doing, people don't give kids enough credit. Occasionally injuries happen, but they'd be no worse than what can happen playing on monkey bars or flying of a swing on the playground, and nobody says anything about that. As for kids scrapping with each other if they go to school together, do you worry about that if they're doing Karate or Judo? It's no different, doing MMA/Pankration doesn't make you more aggressive or violent.
Posted by: Dereck
Re: Youth MMA competition - 09/19/06 09:49 PM
Matt, at the grappling tournament I attended back in June they had the kids up first and I was amazed at how well their basics were. They used good technique and like a lot of kids, they pick up on things fast. What I was especially impressed with was the girls as they fought the boys in their weight class and wow were they good. It made me envious that they did not have stuff like this when I was a kid.
I think with the right frame of mind and good teachers I think martial arts and competing is good for kids. Bare in mind the competing should be controlled and the kids should have good training with technique, not just an all out brawl. That is the wrong mentality and where things go wrong.
Posted by: JKogas
Re: Youth MMA competition - 10/14/06 08:43 AM
I've not seen the videos. It's my opinion that kids should be allowed to compete but perhaps that the rules should be altered in terms of what is allowed. More safety equipment, no closed fist punching (just examples).
Honestly, kids could probably get hurt worse playing Pop Warner football. It all comes down to supervision and an appropriate rules structure.
-John
Posted by: migo
Re: Youth MMA competition - 10/16/06 12:10 AM
Generally twisting leg locks are banned for kids (sometimes all leg locks). That's good because they are easy to do damage with really quickly, and stubborn people will get hurt.
Posted by: tkd_high_green
Re: Youth MMA competition - 10/16/06 12:19 PM
In the tournament cycle I attend, there are child saftey rules for anyone under 14 for olympic sparing. Knockouts by kicking to the face are not allowed. In addition, if you've been knocked out because of an impact to the head, you aren't allowed to compete again for a month.
In the 15 or so tournaments I've attended over the past three years, the worst injuries i've seen included a blown out knee from a bad landing during a patterns competition, a couple of broken noses, and at the last tournament, one girl went out of the ring and managed to impale her foot.
Of course, a responsible school, instructor, and parents look out for their students. We stopped attending certain circuts because of the lack of concern over the welfare of students and the danger that imposed.
I think we also need to remember that these kids are fighting other kids, with the same strength they have, and most would have a hard time in being strong enough to really do a lot of damage.
My instructor recently purchased a device for measuring your kicks and punches. This device, Herman, measures the g forces registered to the sensor on the back of whatever target you attach it to. We had to adjust the sensor down so the kids could even register.
For a palm heel to the face, (on BOB), adults were registering a score of 50 to 60, while the kids were regestering scores between 15 and 25. Based on the documentation, the score is twice the g-forces registered.
Laura
Posted by: Spade
Re: Youth MMA competition - 10/16/06 12:34 PM
Whats with all the "I don't think kids are mature enough to do this type of thing"
If a kid knows how to find the knife drawer, or daddys gun next to the bed, nothing is stopping them from harming someone.
this could at least teach good sportsman ship in the end.
Only real problem I see is that they arn't getting that much "Technique" trainning.
Posted by: CA_Isshinryu
Re: Youth MMA competition - 10/16/06 03:04 PM
Exactly what Victor said. I was disgusted by that TKD clip because the hit wouldn't have been much at all if the kid had his hands up.
Posted by: AndrewGreen
Re: Youth MMA competition - 10/16/06 03:23 PM
Watch what they are doing in those videos, or rather what they are not.
There are no strikes to the head, the refs are right in there. They are padded, so how exactly is this any more dangerous then other rule sets which allow strikes to the head, are often done on hardwood floors or worse and restrict takedowns, clinching and other things which pretty much eliminates kicks to the head.
I've seen far too many kids take a spin kick to the head, or slam there head into a hardwood floor to think of what those kids are doing as any more dangerous.
Is there technique great? No, they are kids. Is there wrestling as good as wrestlers? No, they are not wrestlers. Is there boxing as good as boxers? No, they are not boxers. These kids are learning a lot more "things" and to make comparissons based on certain skill sets compared to systems that focus entirely on those skills is pointless.
TKD schools typically have much better kicking and flexibility then Karate schools, therefore the Karate schools are doing something wrong right?
I personally think the kids are too young too be fighting, I'd rather see them competing only with grappling at that age. But not because it's more dangerous then TKD or karate, because I don't think young kids should be hitting at all in competition, regardless of the rule set.
Posted by: migo
Re: Youth MMA competition - 10/16/06 08:43 PM
Why shouldn't they be hitting? There's no objective reason for that, you're just being emotional.
Posted by: AndrewGreen
Re: Youth MMA competition - 10/17/06 03:36 PM
Quote:
Why shouldn't they be hitting? There's no objective reason for that, you're just being emotional.
Personal preference.
My kids class hits plenty, just not in competition. I'd prefer that if they where to compete it be grappling based.
Posted by: tkd_high_green
Re: Youth MMA competition - 10/17/06 03:54 PM
If they hit in class, why not in competition?
When you spar in class, you learn your opponents well, since you have to fight them on a regular basis. Competition gives you the opportunity to fight someone new.
Are you concerned about the control of the unknown opponent? or is it something else? As I mentioned before, I just don't see the risk. While I have only been to maybe 15 tournaments, I just haven't seen a lot of injuries, and certainly no life threatening ones.
Granted, I haven't done any grappling, but it would seem to me there would be just as much a risk of injury as there would be in a striking competition, like TKD. Misplaced elbow to someones nose, pulled muscles or dislocations, etc...
oh, and what would you have all of the young TKD competetors do at a competition? See who could kiup the loudest?
Laura
Posted by: AndrewGreen
Re: Youth MMA competition - 10/17/06 05:11 PM
Got nothing to do with Risk, I'd just prefer them to wrestle competitively then punch other kids in the face competitively. When they are all friends and it is non-competitive that is entirely different then in a competitive setting.
Wrestling is "fun" it's "play" kids do it instinctely for fun, but very few punch each other in the face for fun.
And if I had to choose a competive striking format for them, I'd definately favour one like the Pankration video over a TKD format without hesitation.
Posted by: Leo_E_49
Re: Youth MMA competition - 10/17/06 05:14 PM
Interesting, you've got quite a different viewpoint from most people I've met.
Posted by: Spade
Re: Youth MMA competition - 10/17/06 05:41 PM
While I was in mexico building houses, the kids there punched each other in the face and wrestled, both were just aspects of playing.
I know in the states we discourge punching someone in the face over wrestling.
Posted by: musicalmike235
Re: Youth MMA competition - 07/03/07 08:45 PM
I really don't know what I think of youth MMA. I love MMA. Its one of the few sports that I actually go out of my way to watch on TV. But, you also have to take into account that kids may not have the maturity to handle MMA. I am not knocking it. As I said, I really can't decide how I feel about this.
Posted by: StFenrir
Re: Youth MMA competition - 11/14/07 03:37 AM
Quote:
kids learning martial arts?
kids learning and encouraged to beat each other up?
thes kids arent mature enough to engage in such competition. No sportsman ship is there or professionalism. I mean if 2 of these kids go to school with one another can you imagine what could happen in the yard at recess? Too early to introduce something that could potentially create a violent adult. If the were in highschool I would give it to them, but some of these kids look like they're in the 3rd grade
I disagree. Teaching your children how to defend themselves must include how to throw a proper punch, knee, elbow, or kick and all the like. They are learning to defend themselves not play games. However the master (the parent or teacher, both even better) must also teach the aprentice WHEN to use his/her abillities and WHEN NOT to use them. It is sipmply a matter of teaching them to mature rather than letting it (hoping it) will happen sooner or later. If the aprentice should go against these teachings then he or she should be disaplined and thuroughly so in order to teach them that if they hurt someone that does not pose a TRUE threat to them then they will be punished, either by the master or by the law when they come of age. Therefor i find nothing wrong with this other then the people in charge need to teach those kids to keep their chins tucked.
Posted by: Blackrainbow
Re: Youth MMA competition - 11/14/07 11:23 AM
I have not been able to go look at the videos. I will have to wait until I get home. But I have some real concerns based upon the comments I am reading. First of all, are we talking sports or self defense? Two very seperate things. Second, if we are talking MMA as a contact sport what age group are we talking about ? High school age kids 16-17 I might say ok. Any younger not so much. Everywhere we look in our society nowadays it is all about "extreme". What is too extreme when we are talking about children ? As a medical professional, ma instructor and a parent (grandparent) I think we need to re think some of this. I started Judo at age 10 under one of the best sensei in the country. It only took about a year before I suffered my first serious injury, a shoulder seperation. In an 11 year old kid this is not a minor, suck it up and move on injury. Childrens bodies are not miniature versions of adults. They are different. And childrens minds are not miniature versions of adults. Kids in Mexico may slap the c**p out of each other and they consider it play. I have been in some places where I have seen 12 year olds carrying AK 47's and it's considered "normal" there. I think we need to be very careful about uping the violence level for kids in the MA's. As a nurse, I am duty bound to report even a suspicion of child abuse. Any instructor who told me that he/she considers broken noses or dislocated limbs to be a normal part of training youth in the dojo is going to be on my call list.
Posted by: SportsLady
Re: Youth MMA competition - 11/16/08 11:14 AM
I saw this video recently:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlwEdx4BjGwIt's one thing to be pushing your boys to do this nonsense.. but making a little girl learn how to beat up other human beings is going to far. This little girl has no desire to do this.. it obviously her parents pushing her. If she wanted to do a sport it would be soccer or cheerleading, no little girl wakes up one day and says I want to learn to brutaly harm others. Boys and MMA might be be okay under the right cercumstances girls and MMA --> I dont think so
Posted by: Kimo2007
Re: Youth MMA competition - 11/16/08 11:48 AM
Quote:
Boys and MMA might be be okay under the right cercumstances girls and MMA --> I dont think so
Ouch, I didn't even watch the video because I saw this line. I believe kids need to be pushed sometimes, it's called parenting...you should know better what they need to grow up. But, within reason and in ways that fit your Child, not what you project onto them.
But the idea that MMA is OK for boys, and not OK for girls? Why not? (although I think MMA is a bit much for younger kids).
Girls should be able to chase any dream a boy can, if she chooses. I doubt many will go the MMA route, but they sure do love the Kick Boxing last time I checked!
Posted by: TKD_X
Re: Youth MMA competition - 11/16/08 11:57 AM
A little sexist, no? Girls should do soccer or cheerleading? Come on. A. She looked like she was having fun. B. She was actually pretty good. I'm not going to comment on the pros or cons of kids doing MMA, but i will say this: just because someone is a female, doesn't mean that she should or should not do anything because it doesn't fit society's stereotypes for her.
-TKD_X
Posted by: tkd_high_green
Re: Youth MMA competition - 11/16/08 02:31 PM
If anything we should be pushing more female children into the martial arts. If I were a parent I would require it of my child whether or not they wanted to or not. I would want my child to have the skills to defend themselves from a bully or sexual predator. Womens self defense courses should be part of every public schools curriculum. It's passive attitudes like yours that stereotype women into being the "weaker sex" and making them easier targets for abuse.
Laura
Posted by: TKD_X
Re: Youth MMA competition - 11/16/08 03:11 PM
Couldn't agree more tkd_high_green. Look at that kid and tell me she couldn't defend herself better than some barbie doll cheerleader.
Posted by: trevek
Re: Youth MMA competition - 11/16/08 03:54 PM
MODS!!!!!! The link Ride only the label has put is a porn link.
Posted by: TKD_X
Re: Youth MMA competition - 11/16/08 07:29 PM
UH OH
Posted by: trevek
Re: Youth MMA competition - 11/17/08 03:27 AM
Yeah, I know... I had to check it a number of times to make sure I was seeing things correctly!
Looking at the date of the post, I think the address has probably been changed or spammed since it was originally posted. I don't think it was deliberately done by our label-riding buddy.
Posted by: LivingR
Re: Youth MMA competition - 12/11/08 04:10 PM
I can't say I agree with Youth MMA. I think kids need to understand more of the mental side of Martial Arts before they explore the physical side. I think it "misguides" them into believing that MA is all about fighting. When in reality it is about making yourself a better person internally and externally.
Posted by: spartancs
Re: Youth MMA competition - 01/01/09 04:47 PM
I really can't believe some of the people who post on this topic. If you don't think kids should compete in contact sports then ok I get it, I don't agree with you but at least you're consistent. I would expect you to be even more opposed to tackle footbal, hockey..... check the injury stats
The amateur MMA that kids compete in in California does not allow strikes above the collarbone so from a striking perspective it's more conservative than many common TMA sparring/kumite matches & has reduced concussion risk for kids. The rest of the rules mirror NAGA which is well established and accepted.
I have three kids who love to compete in BJJ/Submission Grappling & Amateur MMA. I don't "push" them and never have, they are in incredible physical shape and none of them has ever started a fight. Anyone who thinks they aren't learning useful skills doesn't know what they are talking about. Check it out
8yr old boy beating a national level judo player
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85vMsJtxk4w9yr old girl after 6 mo's of training, she's much better now
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PY4np2VZ5Mo12yr old boy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeIQgIbvx8AEvery match my kids engage in starts and ends with respect & a hug or pat on the back, win or lose.