Tiger Shulman - Opinions, (info on...), Review
Posted by: bradjacob
Tiger Shulman - Opinions, (info on...), Review - 11/07/05 02:11 PM
Hi,
Can anyone tell me ANYTHING about Tiger Shulman's karate?
WHAT ARE THE PRICES for adult training ?!!!
How is the training?
Anything to "look out for"?
Pros & cons?
Is this place a good school?
Is this place just a money-maker?
Help!!
I just want to hear from REAL people - their experience with this place. And if anyone would recommend it.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks - Brad
Posted by: Ed_Morris
Re: Tiger Shulman - Opinions, (info on...), Review - 11/07/05 02:20 PM
Posted by: rookie
Re: Tiger Shulman - Opinions, (info on...), Review - 11/07/05 02:56 PM
bradjacob,
It is virtually impossible for someone on this thread to tell you is a particular dojo is good for you or not. It depends on what you are looking to get out of training. Withthat being said, there is a huge ditinction between Tiger Schulmann the man and Tiger Schulman the dojo. Mr. Schulmann is/was a fantastic karate-ka with a graet tournemant record. I beleive he trained directly with Mas Oyama of Kyokushin. I remember reading that he was undefeated (cannot verify that!). If you have an opportunity to train with him or any students that trained directly from him, great. Most of his schools, however, seemed to be more geared to the business of dojos than to the art itself. Thye seem to pop up in every strip mall I see right next to the Starbucks and McDonalds. A few friends of mine went in to look at one of them. The BB at the front desk could not describe what style of Karate they did nor could he explain where the art came from. He only was interested in discussing payment plans and contracts. Hpefully this info helps you make an educated decision.
Posted by: schanne
Re: Tiger Shulman - Opinions, (info on...), Review - 11/07/05 04:33 PM
Did you visit any of his Dojo's yet? Do a search, we have discussed TSK many times.
http://www.tsk.com/
Posted by: bradjacob
Re: Tiger Shulman - Opinions, (info on...), Review - 11/07/05 08:38 PM
Yes I did - I only found One(1) thread here on this forum. Can you send me the links to other threads when this was discussed many times?
Posted by: mrhubbs
Re: Tiger Shulman - Opinions, (info on...), Review - 11/07/05 09:36 PM
Rookie is right. As a martial artist, himself, Tiger Schulman is quite good. I have seen footage of him on the American Masters of Martial Arts DVD and was very impressed with him in knockdown competition. His schools, however, get mixed reviews. I have heard tales of exorbitant prices and unreasonable contracts. I have also heard, like someone in an earlier response mentioned, that many of the instructors lack depth and that the chain is little more than a belt factory.
Having said that, I have also seen a few of his students compete on TV with some success, and I watched a small portion (about 15 minutes) of a kids class at my local strip mall in Danbury, CT, the other day. (My wife was shopping elsewhere and I had nothing better to do.) I was actually pleased with what I saw...kids drilling functional striking techniques and takedowns.
Perhaps if there is a problem with the Tiger Schulman studios, it is the problem that many franchises suffer from - quality control. My best advice would be to visit the school, observe several classes, take a trial class, and read over the contract with a fine tooth comb. If you like what you see, go for it.
(I must say, the TSK dojos are always very pretty.)
Good luck,
David
Posted by: bradjacob
Re: Tiger Shulman - Opinions, (info on...), Review - 11/08/05 07:46 AM
Thanks Everyone. Again - this is just what I needed to hear.
- Brad
Posted by: Narf
Re: Tiger Shulman - Opinions, (info on...), Review - 12/30/05 11:39 PM
I am a student a a Tiger Schulmann's studio. I've found the quaality of teaching to be excellent. However, I feel the term "karate" in the title to be a misnomer. It is a mixed martial arts school. They do submission grappling, kickboxing, and close range defense. The school has produced great fighters (Shennen Maceo, Laura D'Auguste, etc.), which shows that they can't be that bad. I don't think it's the McDojo everyone says it is.
However...
From a business perspective it's a little ridiculous. They make you pay by class, and the better you get, the more classes you need to take. People pay thousands of dollars a year. I think it's pretty expensive.
Posted by: schanne
Re: Tiger Shulman - Opinions, (info on...), Review - 12/31/05 09:23 AM
I believe if you pay by the class the time you get your BB you would have spent well over $10,000.00 if I'm wrong please correct me.
Posted by: schanne
Re: Tiger Shulman - Opinions, (info on...), Review - 12/31/05 09:24 AM
Tiger doesn't teach.... his BB do.
Posted by: richsouth
Re: Tiger Shulman - Opinions, (info on...), Review - 01/13/08 11:04 PM
Unlike some of these other people. I am a student at Tiger Schulmans Mixed Martial Arts. I started in Aug 2007. I had checked out the school by talking to other students, and attending one of their tournaments, and by speaking to instructors at another school.
They are supposedly less into the art and more into self defense which is fine with me.
The school is EXCELLENT for learning self defense, and getting you into shape. They are very commercialized in terms of signing you up and getting your money. Classes range from a low of $14 to about $23 depending on how many classes you buy and how you pay for the classes - all at once or charged over time.
Though they are commercialized, I accept that, as they are a very organized school with about 45 schools now, and they will not be going out of business. They may be commercialized but I would definitely highly recommend them. I go to the Bayside, New York School. The owner is a 5th degree black belt and is a great and dedicated instructor.
If you go to a REAL tournament such as one that I recently saw in Atlantic City - World Combat League, you will be impressed with the fighters from Tiger Schulmans.
Posted by: IExcalibui2
Re: Tiger Shulman - Opinions, (info on...), Review - 01/13/08 11:48 PM
Okay so we all understand its a bit pricey (and maybe then some) but whats the whole $99 introductory offer they always talk about (with free uniform)? Maybe thats back when it was TS Karate...I miss those commercials. I'm curious about the payment and such of the school even though I already have a place to train when I'm back in the city. But just for future reference (maybe even a job? hahaha).
You pay per class and thats it? No other options here?
Posted by: EFRAIN
Re: Tiger Shulman - Opinions, (info on...), Review - 01/20/08 10:47 PM
If I'm not mistaken I think they represent themselves as TIGER SCHULMANS MIXED MARTIAL ARTS not KARATE anymore..not sure thought...But I think thats what i've seen where i live in New Jersey...The Dojo Im talking about is in Paramus,NJ LOCATED IN ROUTE 4 I believe...
Posted by: Raul Perez
Re: Tiger Shulman - Opinions, (info on...), Review - 01/21/08 11:48 AM
Tiger Schulmann's can do whatever they want. However, I have a big problem with how they flipped their coin over the past 5 years.
Schulmann made his mark doing knock down karate tournaments and was really good at it. His chain started with traditional martial arts which included KATA. Now his chain not only got rid of kata they actually make fun of it now.
doesnt make sense to [censored] where you used to eat and sleep. If you want to jump on the MMA bandwagon for more profits fine. It's a business and got to go with what is hot. But dont try to portray that the system NEVER was into kata or the traditional martial arts.
Posted by: JohnL
Re: Tiger Shulman - Opinions, (info on...), Review - 01/23/08 02:02 PM
Hey Efrain
I know the one on route 4 you mentioned. I went in one night to have a look and was unimpressed by the out of shape female black belt who greeted me and didn't know arthur from martha about martial arts. She knew nothing about her own style or others.
I saw the adult class and was less than impressed.
In addition, TS have a reputation for signing you up to long term contracts which you can't get out of, and then selling them to a collection agency.
Big problems.
To those of you that go there, what are your monthly bills like and what contract term did you sign up for.
Posted by: JasonM
Re: Tiger Shulman - Opinions, (info on...), Review - 01/24/08 08:38 AM
That ain't cool..
I beleive stay true to where you came from. And definitely don't mock what you once beleived/taught.
Posted by: JAMJTX
Re: Tiger Shulman - Opinions, (info on...), Review - 01/24/08 11:34 AM
Quote:
Tiger doesn't teach.... his BB do.
This is a big problem with big schools like this. You don't get to train with the person you are paying to train with. But here's my impression.
TSK used to advertise very heavy around us. Looking only at the TV ads I had the impression that it was a total mcdojo.
I did have an oppertunity to see a demonstration done by the "demo team" and it was very impressive.
But that was the "demo team". They are hand-picked students who are dedicated and were personally trained by Tiger himself.
Will you get the same training as the demo team receives? Probably not. But what I did learn from this experience is that it is possible to get very high quality training there.
This is not traditional karate. So you also have to consider what it is you want to learn. What I saw looked like a combination of Karate, Boxing and maybe some other things thrown in. I understand it is now called Tiger Schulmans Mixed Martial Arts.
Posted by: stiltz11
Re: Tiger Shulman - Opinions, (info on...), Review - 05/21/09 09:09 PM
I became a student in 1998. I initially signed up for the beginner classes and then was pressured into the intermediate. They were expensive back then and I could just imagine what they cost now. When I was a student, it was taught as a hybrid mix of Karate, Aikido, and Jujitsu. Then boxing and grappling was introduced. Forms (katas) were eliminated at some point (probably around 2000) and instead of alternating weeks of sparring and forms, we switched to alternating boxing and grappling. There is one thing that many people have failed to mention. ALL of the equipment and uniforms must be bought from TIGEAR or you will not be allowed to train. And they are WAY overpriced. That was yet another way they stiffed you financially. I loved the training but the way they nickel and dime you just turned my stomach. They also make you buy bundles of wood from them for woodbreaking week which I never attended for that reason. What they taught was good, but I don't like being robbed. So I quit. I miss training and hope to get back into it one day soon but not through them. Hope this information helps.
Posted by: IExcalibui2
Re: Tiger Shulman - Opinions, (info on...), Review - 05/22/09 04:06 PM
you have to buy everything from them?
kinda sounds like Apple...
Posted by: acktkdkenpotsk
Re: Tiger Shulman - Opinions, (info on...), Review - 05/31/09 09:43 PM
Waz up folks,
Has anyone here received a black belt from TSK?
be honest,now.
Posted by: acktkdkenpotsk
Re: Tiger Shulman - Opinions, (info on...), Review - 06/03/09 01:44 AM
Amazing how confused and wrong so many people are about TSK.
I like reading the comments though, I find them hilarious.
Posted by: JasonM
Re: Tiger Shulman - Opinions, (info on...), Review - 06/03/09 02:15 AM
hhmm, only two post and nothing productive. Do you want to contribute to the site or get the boot?
Posted by: IExcalibui2
Re: Tiger Shulman - Opinions, (info on...), Review - 06/03/09 02:18 AM
Quote:
Amazing how confused and wrong so many people are about TSK.
I like reading the comments though, I find them hilarious.
mind filling us in on the 411 then?
Posted by: VDJ
Re: Tiger Shulman - Opinions, (info on...), Review - 06/03/09 06:23 PM
Quote:
Amazing how confused and wrong so many people are about TSK.
I like reading the comments though, I find them hilarious.
Now I looked thru the posts and other than JohnL being "Less than impressed",the posts were pretty positive of what they saw or were taught at TSK. The biggest negative posted is that they are pricey (and you have to buy all your gear from them). So what are we confused and wrong about ?
VDJ
Posted by: iaibear
Re: Tiger Shulman - Opinions, (info on...), Review - 06/03/09 08:23 PM
Just went to TSK web site via Google. Did not research class prices. But the basic uniform is not all that far out of line/
<< Basic Student Uniform >>
White string-top pants, Black tee with logo #49.99
Posted by: acktkdkenpotsk
Re: Tiger Shulman - Opinions, (info on...), Review - 06/04/09 01:26 AM
What are they confused about? Just about everything. It's not entirely anyone's fault. TSK has evolved over the years, and I understand the why of the confusion. However let's break it down:
There are multiple parts to a Martial Arts school
First, is it a style that falls under the "street" category, or the "Sport" Category. They all fall under one or the other.
Definition of Sport, "any rules whatsoever- not a street fight".
Second, the Business. The business end is always intertwined with the instruction to bash tsk, and that is a separate category all together, which I have no problem with.
3rd,Look at the venues of competition and you will see TSK in just about all of them. ROC,IFL,NAGA (where we out grapple the Gracie students 2 to 1)Cage fighting in AC, and the WKBO at The Capitale, or The Belator in AC where we have our probable first contender for the UFC about to fight for the championship. Lyman good just opened up his opponent in the last fight and is one fight away from the top.http://www.tsk.com/competition/teamnews/story.php?id=535
If anyone wants to hear the truth and have a civilized conversation, I'm all willing. I'm 42, have studied four styles starting 32 years ago in 1976, and i have BB's in two of the styles. I don't say this in any way to brag, simply to impress upon anyone, that I have seen the evolution of Karate in this country, I have lived it, and I have open-minded, objective feelings about it.
From NAGA:
Northeast Groundfighting Championship
*Results are not yet official
ADULT NO-GI TEAM WINNERS KIDS & TEENS TEAM WINNERS
1st Place TSMMA 1870 1st Place TSMMA 1710
2nd Place West Point 580 2nd Place Lloyd Irvin 1400
3rd Place Jerry Jones/Impulse MMA 510 3rd Place Jerry Jones/Impulse MMA 970
4th Place Renzo Gracie 490 4th Place Advanced MA 510
5th Place K Dojo 380 5th Place Budo 400
6th Place Jersey Fight Club 220 6th Place End Game 300
7th Place Underdog BJJ 210 7th Place North NY Judo 250
TIE Daddis 210 8th Place Team Yemen 210
9th Place End Game 190 9th Place Jersey Shore MMA 200
10th Place Main Street Gym 160 TIE Drago 200
TIE Advanced Fighting Systems 160 Honorable Mention Amer Kick 170
Honorable Mention Rat Pack 140 Honorable Mention Renzo Gracie 160
Honorable Mention Pedro Sauer 140 Honorable Mention Black Dragon 160
Honorable Mention Champions Gym 140 Honorable Mention Team Fiona 140
Honorable Mention Ultimate MMA 130 Honorable Mention Jungle Gym 140
Honorable Mention Team Pereira 120 Honorable Mention Baltimore MMA 140
Honorable Mention Red Boy Scarola 120 Honorable Mention LA Boxing 120
Honorable Mention Grappler's Guild 120 Honorable Mention Hart to Hart Fitness 120
Honorable Mention Codella Acad. 120 Honorable Mention Tetsushin 100
Honorable Mention American Sambo 120 Honorable Mention Spartan 90
Honorable Mention Parker Palace 110 Honorable Mention Pit Bull 90
Honorable Mention Taurus MMA 100 Honorable Mention Pellegrino MMA 90
Honorable Mention Royce Gracie 90 Honorable Mention Balance Studios 90
Honorable Mention Rhino Fight Team 90 Honorable Mention Oxyfit 70
Honorable Mention Lloyd Irvin 90 Honorable Mention Delima 70
Honorable Mention Guerrero 90 Honorable Mention BJJ United 70
Honorable Mention Budo 90 Honorable Mention BJJ Shore Acad. 70
Honorable Mention 10th Planet 90 Honorable Mention Team Buds 50
Honorable Mention Balance 80 Honorable Mention PSM 50
Honorable Mention Argyros Sports BJJ 80 Honorable Mention Fighting Dragons MMA 50
Honorable Mention Spartan Fitness 70 Honorable Mention De la Pena 50
Honorable Mention Oliveira
Posted by: IExcalibui2
Re: Tiger Shulman - Opinions, (info on...), Review - 06/04/09 02:01 PM
are we reading the same thread?
I thought there were POSITIVE reviews on the quality of instruction??
only bad thing anyone really said was that it is expensive
I don't think we're all that confused...
Posted by: MattJ
Re: Tiger Shulman - Opinions, (info on...), Review - 06/04/09 02:44 PM
One of Bullshido's admins trained TSK, and had good things to say about the training - but he didn't care for the business orientation.
http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=588
Posted by: VDJ
Re: Tiger Shulman - Opinions, (info on...), Review - 06/04/09 03:46 PM
Quote:
What are they confused about? Just about everything. It's not entirely anyone's fault. TSK has evolved over the years, and I understand the why of the confusion. However let's break it down:
There are multiple parts to a Martial Arts school
First, is it a style that falls under the "street" category, or the "Sport" Category. They all fall under one or the other.
Definition of Sport, "any rules whatsoever- not a street fight".
Second, the Business. The business end is always intertwined with the instruction to bash tsk, and that is a separate category all together, which I have no problem with.
3rd,Look at the venues of competition and you will see TSK in just about all of them. ROC,IFL,NAGA (where we out grapple the Gracie students 2 to 1)Cage fighting in AC, and the WKBO at The Capitale, or The Belator in AC where we have our probable first contender for the UFC about to fight for the championship. Lyman good just opened up his opponent in the last fight and is one fight away from the top.http://www.tsk.com/competition/teamnews/story.php?id=535
If anyone wants to hear the truth and have a civilized conversation, I'm all willing. I'm 42, have studied four styles starting 32 years ago in 1976, and i have BB's in two of the styles. I don't say this in any way to brag, simply to impress upon anyone, that I have seen the evolution of Karate in this country, I have lived it, and I have open-minded, objective feelings about it.
From NAGA:
Northeast Groundfighting Championship
*Results are not yet official
ADULT NO-GI TEAM WINNERS KIDS & TEENS TEAM WINNERS
1st Place TSMMA 1870 1st Place TSMMA 1710
2nd Place West Point 580 2nd Place Lloyd Irvin 1400
3rd Place Jerry Jones/Impulse MMA 510 3rd Place Jerry Jones/Impulse MMA 970
4th Place Renzo Gracie 490 4th Place Advanced MA 510
5th Place K Dojo 380 5th Place Budo 400
6th Place Jersey Fight Club 220 6th Place End Game 300
7th Place Underdog BJJ 210 7th Place North NY Judo 250
TIE Daddis 210 8th Place Team Yemen 210
9th Place End Game 190 9th Place Jersey Shore MMA 200
10th Place Main Street Gym 160 TIE Drago 200
TIE Advanced Fighting Systems 160 Honorable Mention Amer Kick 170
Honorable Mention Rat Pack 140 Honorable Mention Renzo Gracie 160
Honorable Mention Pedro Sauer 140 Honorable Mention Black Dragon 160
Honorable Mention Champions Gym 140 Honorable Mention Team Fiona 140
Honorable Mention Ultimate MMA 130 Honorable Mention Jungle Gym 140
Honorable Mention Team Pereira 120 Honorable Mention Baltimore MMA 140
Honorable Mention Red Boy Scarola 120 Honorable Mention LA Boxing 120
Honorable Mention Grappler's Guild 120 Honorable Mention Hart to Hart Fitness 120
Honorable Mention Codella Acad. 120 Honorable Mention Tetsushin 100
Honorable Mention American Sambo 120 Honorable Mention Spartan 90
Honorable Mention Parker Palace 110 Honorable Mention Pit Bull 90
Honorable Mention Taurus MMA 100 Honorable Mention Pellegrino MMA 90
Honorable Mention Royce Gracie 90 Honorable Mention Balance Studios 90
Honorable Mention Rhino Fight Team 90 Honorable Mention Oxyfit 70
Honorable Mention Lloyd Irvin 90 Honorable Mention Delima 70
Honorable Mention Guerrero 90 Honorable Mention BJJ United 70
Honorable Mention Budo 90 Honorable Mention BJJ Shore Acad. 70
Honorable Mention 10th Planet 90 Honorable Mention Team Buds 50
Honorable Mention Balance 80 Honorable Mention PSM 50
Honorable Mention Argyros Sports BJJ 80 Honorable Mention Fighting Dragons MMA 50
Honorable Mention Spartan Fitness 70 Honorable Mention De la Pena 50
Honorable Mention Oliveira
And just where in this thread is ANY MENTION of this (other than your posts) or negative or bashing comments???????????? I think the confused one is you!!!!!!!! Congrats to all the above mentioned competitors for job well done. Still, it doesn't look like anybody on this board is confused except for the quoted poster!
VDJ
Posted by: Kimo2007
Re: Tiger Shulman - Opinions, (info on...), Review - 06/04/09 05:18 PM
Quote:
(where we out grapple the Gracie students 2 to 1)
This doesn't really help you case. I have no idea the basis or truth of it, but I am always leery of anyone who feels the need to read me their resume, or make claims we cannot verify.
Are you saying your school produces better grapplers then the Gracies?
I am actually undefeated against TSK fighters. That is a fact. Now, I have only fought the one, and I guess he didn't realize how much closer his groin was to me then my head to him. He was from Europe so maybe it was a metric thing:)
Seriously your post seems a bit Kobra Kai, first you tell everyone how in the dark they are, even though no one called out TSK schools expect for maybe the cost. Then you post this huge resume.
Are you telling or selling?
Posted by: acktkdkenpotsk
Re: Tiger Shulman - Opinions, (info on...), Review - 06/04/09 11:42 PM
I would first decide for yourself what you are truly looking for. Getting in to shape? Learning how to kickbox and/or grapple, or do it all together. There are styles that emphasize street self defense i.e. Kenpo, as well as kick boxing, Kata's and some weapons. I seem to have accidentally insulted some people on this board, and have been called out to answer for it. So, if you want to learn more, please see my response on page 3 and possibly 4.
Posted by: acktkdkenpotsk
Re: Tiger Shulman - Opinions, (info on...), Review - 06/05/09 12:10 AM
I was asked why I felt people were taking shots at TSMMA. This was the 3rd board I found, and although it was the least offensive, I had already seen a lot of insulting mis-information. Anyway...
This is what I meant about some "confusion" on the board.
“A few friends of mine went in to look at one of them. The BB at the front desk could not describe what style of Karate they did nor could he explain where the art came from. He only was interested in discussing payment plans and contracts. Hpefully this info helps you make an educated decision.”-Rookie
“Perhaps if there is a problem with the Tiger Schulman studios, it is the problem that many franchises suffer from - quality control.”-mrhubbs
“I believe if you pay by the class the time you get your BB you would have spent well over $10,000.00”-schanne
“Schulmann made his mark doing knock down karate tournaments and was really good at it. His chain started with traditional martial arts which included KATA. Now his chain not only got rid of kata they actually make fun of it now.
doesnt make sense to [censored] where you used to eat and sleep. If you want to jump on the MMA bandwagon for more profits fine. It's a business and got to go with what is hot. But dont try to portray that the system NEVER was into kata or the traditional martial arts.”- Raul Perez
“I know the one on route 4 you mentioned. I went in one night to have a look and was unimpressed by the out of shape female black belt who greeted me and didn't know arthur from martha about martial arts. She knew nothing about her own style or others.
I saw the adult class and was less than impressed.
In addition, TS have a reputation for signing you up to long term contracts which you can't get out of, and then selling them to a collection agency.
Big problems.
To those of you that go there, what are your monthly bills like and what contract term did you sign up for.”
-JohnL
“you have to buy everything from them?
kinda sounds like Apple...”- IExcalibui2
Maybe you can see why I said people seem very confused, I could explain, because I understand why. In some cases people were reporting what someone else said! But as I said, Mea Culpa.
OUS!
Posted by: IExcalibui2
Re: Tiger Shulman - Opinions, (info on...), Review - 06/05/09 01:32 AM
well like most of us said, we're giving our criticisms about the BUSINESS aspect. Some people are willing to dish out massive amounts of a black belt, while others rather like to end up only paying a few hundred dollars over the years for one.
lets say we compare TSMMA to a school of equal quality
thousands of dollars vs hundreds...hmm, my wallet would say hundreds. But I'm just speaking for my wallet alone
so far you havent really shed any light on our "confusion." yea TSMMA has produced some good guys, that doesnt tell us that much
Posted by: Cord
Re: Tiger Shulman - Opinions, (info on...), Review - 06/05/09 04:41 AM
Just an observation, but the comments you see as 'confused' are anything but. If you look at the quotes you have highlighted, they are all personal opinion, based on 1st hand experience. lots of 'I popped in', 'I watched' and 'I talked with'.
If the clubs in the franchise that were visited failed to make a positive impression on these people, the fault does not lie with the potential customer, it lies with the service provider, and how they present themselves.
That is the 1st rule of business - the end of line consumer of your product is the most important link in your chain.
Just because your product is an MA doesn't change that.
It's like a chef getting 8 plates of food returned to his kitchen, and rather than evaluating their quality, or revising the menu based on customer feedback, he comes out to the restaurant to criticise the diners for having ignorant tastebuds.
Gordon Ramsay is prone to this, and he has just had his business go into ruins.
Something to think about.
Posted by: IExcalibui2
Re: Tiger Shulman - Opinions, (info on...), Review - 06/05/09 11:28 AM
Quote:
Gordon Ramsay is prone to this, and he has just had his business go into ruins.
Something to think about.
yet TSMMA still lives on? its an anomaly!
Posted by: VDJ
Re: Tiger Shulman - Opinions, (info on...), Review - 06/05/09 01:21 PM
From your post above :
“I believe if you pay by the class the time you get your BB you would have spent well over $10,000.00”-schanne
What Schanne actually posted above:
"I believe if you pay by the class the time you get your BB you would have spent well over $10,000.00 if I'm wrong please correct me."
Now why would you leave the most important part of the quote out ? He wasn't forming an opinion on hear say, he was asking for confirmation on what he was told from someone in the know! your accusing people of being confused and making uninformed opinions, yet you are mis-quoting them to fit your belief. As is pointed out above, the experiences posted are first hand experiences of people actually going into on of the TKS studios, how do you know that these are not correct? Have you been to the Studio on mentioned above on Rt. 4 in N.J.? If not, how can you say that the poster is not accurate ? So again, your post proves nothing about a misconception or confusion of TSK on this forum, and I really wonder if the other boards are as confused as we are!?
VDJ
Posted by: acktkdkenpotsk
Re: Tiger Shulman - Opinions, (info on...), Review - 06/06/09 02:01 AM
Since I type with 3 fingers, and refuse to become a slave to this board, I'll take these one at a time as you ask for them. To sit here and answer all of this feedback at once is a tedious chore. 1st question anyone?
I don't know how you can decide on who goes first, that's your decision.
Posted by: Cord
Re: Tiger Shulman - Opinions, (info on...), Review - 06/06/09 06:05 AM
Nobody asked you any questions, and any retort you offer will not change an opinion held widely in the MA community that franchised Martial arts, where membership sales and retention are as, if not more, important than the art being taught, are to be treated with suspicion.
Posted by: VDJ
Re: Tiger Shulman - Opinions, (info on...), Review - 06/06/09 08:32 AM
Quote:
Since I type with 3 fingers, and refuse to become a slave to this board, I'll take these one at a time as you ask for them. To sit here and answer all of this feedback at once is a tedious chore. 1st question anyone?
I don't know how you can decide on who goes first, that's your decision.
So you type with one more finger than I do. Why not answer my questions in my last post, which were only 2. Why did you not quote Schanne's enitire post and why do you think peoples first hand experiences have them confused?
VDJ
Posted by: ITFunity
Re: Tiger Shulman - Opinions, (info on...), Review - 06/06/09 10:29 AM
I have not been in a TSK school in a long time. I would give the same generic advice I give to anyone seeking a MA school. Do your homework & visit all the schools in your area. Ask a lot of questions of both students, teachers, owner & parents if for your child. Don't sign anything until you have done your rounds at least 3x to each location. Then decide which school offers what you want & has the teacher who will best help you get there as evidenced by the current students there.
As far as TSK I remember that some years back the NYS Attorney General's office did a big statewide probe into problems with their business model which took some type of advantage of the consumer. The NYSAG is among many things, tasked with consumer protection. You may want to contact them to see what their investigation entailed & how it might affect a potential customer today. These things are a matter of public record. I post no specifics as I do not remember them & direct the reader to look into it as they see fit.
Posted by: VDJ
Re: Tiger Shulman - Opinions, (info on...), Review - 06/06/09 11:10 AM
"As far as TSK I remember that some years back the NYS Attorney General's office did a big statewide probe into problems with their business model which took some type of advantage of the consumer. The NYSAG is among many things, tasked with consumer protection. You may want to contact them to see what their investigation entailed & how it might affect a potential customer today. These things are a matter of public record. I post no specifics as I do not remember them & direct the reader to look into it as they see fit."
I don't remember anything about this, but I do remember them winning a BIG court case for ALL martial art schools when I believe it was a joint thing with PA & NJ wanting them to be categorized as a "Health Club" rather than a Martial Arts School, where they would be required to carry a different type of business insurance that was way more expensive, this then would have been applied to all MA schools. Fortunately the courts ruled in their favor!
VDJ
Posted by: ITFunity
Re: Tiger Shulman - Opinions, (info on...), Review - 06/06/09 05:12 PM
Quote:
"As far as TSK I remember that some years back the NYS Attorney General's office did a big statewide probe into problems with their business model which took some type of advantage of the consumer. The NYSAG is among many things, tasked with consumer protection. You may want to contact them to see what their investigation entailed & how it might affect a potential customer today. These things are a matter of public record. I post no specifics as I do not remember them & direct the reader to look into it as they see fit."
I don't remember anything about this, but I do remember them winning a BIG court case for ALL martial art schools when I believe it was a joint thing with PA & NJ wanting them to be categorized as a "Health Club" rather than a Martial Arts School, where they would be required to carry a different type of business insurance that was way more expensive, this then would have been applied to all MA schools. Fortunately the courts ruled in their favor! VDJ
Not that was not what I was thinking. I did find the info on their website. It was regarding deceptive business practices, where they were forced to make refunds, pay fines etc. See below link for more info if interested. They also make mention the Commonwealth of PA was investigating them as well:
http://www.oag.state.ny.us/media_center/2000/nov/nov27a_00.html
Posted by: acktkdkenpotsk
Re: Tiger Shulman - Opinions, (info on...), Review - 06/06/09 10:43 PM
Quote:
Nobody asked you any questions, and any retort you offer will not change an opinion held widely in the MA community that franchised Martial arts, where membership sales and retention are as, if not more, important than the art being taught, are to be treated with suspicion.
Great. Thanks for your input.
Adios!
Posted by: Cord
Re: Tiger Shulman - Opinions, (info on...), Review - 06/07/09 02:44 AM
Some people join here to talk about martial arts, some to make friends.
Others purely join to promote their school, caring little for the wider possibilities of the site.
I train in savate - plenty here wouldn't want to train in an art that interests me, but as I am not hellbent on pimping savate on the world, it does not cause me any problems with others on here.
Your attitude shows your motives for joining here, as does your decision to leave.
Enjoy your school, as others enjoy theirs.
Posted by: Kimo2007
Re: Tiger Shulman - Opinions, (info on...), Review - 06/07/09 10:09 AM
Cord, you are too nice (wait did I just say that?). 7 posts, where the first post insults the forum members, and the last post dismisses them.
Sorry if he can't deal with the fact that this forum will both, hold a person accountable for their posts in an honest way and answer a question when it is asked.
No one here ever said TSK was a joke or bad, they just said it was a franchise and a large business (which it is) and they questioned the cost benefit VS. other smaller schools.
All viable points and all from what I can tell based on experience.
As a TSK student, he could could have done his school a service by exchanging ideas on a forum like this, instead all he did is reinforce the sense most MA's have about the school.
Well done!
Posted by: Cord
Re: Tiger Shulman - Opinions, (info on...), Review - 06/07/09 11:40 AM
Quote:
Cord, you are too nice (wait did I just say that?). 7 posts, where the first post insults the forum members, and the last post dismisses them.
Sometimes, when being accused of ignorant/unreasonable attitude, the best thing to do is not prove the accuser right in your defence 
Dont worry, I will be back to normal in a couple of threads time 
Posted by: VDJ
Re: Tiger Shulman - Opinions, (info on...), Review - 06/07/09 09:58 PM
Quote:
Cord, you are too nice (wait did I just say that?). 7 posts, where the first post insults the forum members, and the last post dismisses them.
Sorry if he can't deal with the fact that this forum will both, hold a person accountable for their posts in an honest way and answer a question when it is asked.
No one here ever said TSK was a joke or bad, they just said it was a franchise and a large business (which it is) and they questioned the cost benefit VS. other smaller schools.
All viable points and all from what I can tell based on experience.
As a TSK student, he could could have done his school a service by exchanging ideas on a forum like this, instead all he did is reinforce the sense most MA's have about the school.
Well done!
Agree 100%! We had the same reaction on the Mong Su Dom Tai Chinese Karate thread. Some very valid questions were asked which received some very vague answers and then we are called "Small Minded" 
VDJ
Posted by: Ames
Re: Tiger Shulman - Opinions, (info on...), Review - 06/09/09 02:03 AM
Honestly, I think everyone here is being too nice. This franchise seems like a chain of Mcdojo's. They fit the definition to a 't', and it's as simple as that.
--Chris
Posted by: IExcalibui2
Re: Tiger Shulman - Opinions, (info on...), Review - 06/09/09 02:09 AM
Quote:
Agree 100%! We had the same reaction on the Mong Su Dom Tai Chinese Karate thread. Some very valid questions were asked which received some very vague answers and then we are called "Small Minded"
VDJ
except we know what TSMMA teaches and we've even had people give estimate prices for a black belt..less of a mystery in this thread and more like someone just coming along and saying we're wrong
I don't think all branches of TSMMA are Mcdojos. Do they have a big focus on fee's? yea but doesnt mean their quality of teaching HAS to be bad.
Posted by: VDJ
Re: Tiger Shulman - Opinions, (info on...), Review - 06/09/09 07:29 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Agree 100%! We had the same reaction on the Mong Su Dom Tai Chinese Karate thread. Some very valid questions were asked which received some very vague answers and then we are called "Small Minded"
VDJ
except we know what TSMMA teaches and we've even had people give estimate prices for a black belt..less of a mystery in this thread and more like someone just coming along and saying we're wrong
I don't think all branches of TSMMA are Mcdojos. Do they have a big focus on fee's? yea but doesnt mean their quality of teaching HAS to be bad.
Well I know this.From what I have seen, TSK is a far better quality than any ATA school I've ever walked into!
VDJ
Posted by: Ames
Re: Tiger Shulman - Opinions, (info on...), Review - 06/09/09 11:12 AM
Quote:
I don't think all branches of TSMMA are Mcdojos.
Yes, perhaps there are some branches that are okay. The point is, based on the info coming from several different people, the franchise ITSELF is a Mcdojo chain. This is what we have heard so far:
-The franchise has become too large for the chief instructor to impose good standards
-Very high enrollment fees, and year long contracts
-Extremely high class fees
-An equipment embargo
To me, all these things equal a fairly classic example of a Mcdojo. The quality of teaching at some branches may be fine, but the point is that overall the franchise itself is run like a Mcdojo.
--Chris
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Posted by: IExcalibui2
Re: Tiger Shulman - Opinions, (info on...), Review - 06/09/09 01:41 PM
oh see now i get what you're sayin
yea, if we set the quality aside, then yea TSMMA is a Mcdojo
Posted by: white tiger
Re: Tiger Shulman - Opinions, (info on...), Review - 07/01/10 05:07 PM
They are doing it again in Florida Clearwater as of 06/29/2010. Tiger Shulman requested parents to buy gears which cost about 5 times as much as Dick's sport or Sport Authority would sell. If you don't buy they won't allow your children to up belt... You cannot quit because they already take your money. I am thinking about file complaint with Florida BBB and Consumer Protection.
Posted by: ghdfans2010
Re: Tiger Shulman - Opinions, (info on...), Review - 07/10/10 02:15 AM
I have a question:How is the training? I want you to help me!
Posted by: Mat Fraser
Re: Tiger Shulman - Opinions, (info on...), Review - 09/03/10 05:48 AM
Hi just a quick note of my time in Manhattan TSK, I'm a disabled Brit, went along, found informed friendly people who welcomed me into their dojo. Sure there is money taken and a contract that is quite long, but I WANT to train, and commit to it, so I was happy with buying a package of classes that I could use up according to my availability ( I come and go from U.K. to USA all the time )and TSK's flexibility around that issue really suits me as I often change my work schedules and so have to also change my class schedules, which they were happy to accommodate. The classes are hard and fast, lots of cardio working out, no wasted time, with a good stretching session to end each class, very good( so may classes leave out the post class stretching). I left every class wet through with sweat, the instructors of varying senior levels all had good communication skills, friendly and demanding schedules, and after just 2 weeks I had gotten my fitness back to levels that usually take about a month. I was touched that some of them had worked out different patterns for me ( I only kick except in grappling classes) without being asked and that my disability had no more impact than it needs to, IE very little. They just got on with training me in the class. Value for money is good if you train regularly, I trained 4 times a week when I could and got great value. So, that's my version of Manhattan TSK. I cannot wait to go back.