Abir Martial Art

new MA term:
ABIR The deadly Art of pop groups during the 70's.
http://www.geocities.com/what_dayaknow/Abba_Illusion.jpg

The ryukenkan website tried to dis the Abir style like a crybaby competitor and this post comes from one of this teachers 9 students.Now hell...Im an Arab so I don't really care one way or the other but...The Abir is a number one martial artist.I hope that all Jews will continue to laugh at him and the Abir style.I think it is tuff and effective.My brother has a cab and works at a station near to his place.Altleast this guy is a real Jewish.He speaks Arabic and all the arabs know of his family from Al Khallil(Hebron) and from the Yemen.I thought that this style looks like the arab sword dances from the beduin tribes but there are some differences like the use of the hebrew letters as fighting forms.It is a jewish style so I do not want to learn it.The sword he uses in the video is a wushu demo sword for the ignorants(just kidding) and it is an ''Ali Baba style sword introduced to china when they took on Islam.It was middle eastern first!Maybe we are enemies....those are the politics but I respect the style.It is not Korean.I studied kuksoolwon in Texas and travelled to Korea twice.I know that the Abir trained with our grandmaster's brother.His kuksool level is pretty well known and he (Sofer) was once on one of our posters.Who ever said that the Abir style is Korean is...well Im not training in techniques made from hebrew letters!lol The Abir striking is totally different ..hands and legs both.I saw the ryuken teacher and spoke to him in english cause he's american and his ''hebrew'' sucks.He didnt know I'm an arab(I told him my name is Sammy instead of Samir)and he invites me to train so I tell him i'm training in Abir to tease him.''I saw that guy fight in a 'Kumite' in Japan doing that kuksool crap and I wasnt impressed at all''.I went to my brother's stand and asked the Abir if he was ever in Japan before and he answered ''no..why?''Irealised this kenpo guy was just frontin'.
I trained in HKD and TKD and I'm getting into boxing after training in muy thai here in Jerusalem.There is no kuksool here anymore worth training since this Abir's left it to teach the Jewish style.I'm new hear on this forum so hi everybody.BTW the music at the ABIR website is ARABIC!!!!!

hear that? THE NUMBER ONE MARTIAL ART/IST.
we've finally found it...all of the debate over which one is the best has now been answered.
Give this guy the bullshido award.

other than your obvious racism, that was an interesting post...so the sword in the video, was it sheet-metal or tin?

by the way, I thought Jewish and Arabs share the same race and it is only the book which they worship that differs...what has the distiction between religion got anything to do with Martial Arts? what has the distincion between races got to do with Martial Arts? nada.

I thought there was a legitimate martial art which claims to be the parent of pankration, taught among the nobility of the Egyptians - Sabakha.

Not passing judgement on Abir. Are they related?

well well well....after reading the rules to the forum here I thought it quite funny that the art bashing law was waved so a lil bashing would be allowed for the Jews...hahahaha priceless.But when an Arab talks....no no no huh?that right is reserved for your kind.you are not race oriented where MA are concerned.Studies now show that the arts brought to china from india came from the ancient middle east.Mesapotemia and sumeria and egypt.I suppose you never read your BIBLE to see that these jews have a history of conquering peoples and sending them off their homelands.
you are soo stupid to call me a racially biased person when I take a defensive position of a group of people that I am in essence at war with...and say okay...whatever the politics are between us I can get past that and say that I think that the man and the system he teaches is top notch number one or as good and as technically sound as any,eventhough my people are at war with them.I think I stated that all of that is just politics if you read my response.Don't just twist my words and don't give me any awards.Number one doesn't mean I think Abir is the best or in first place.You are obviously sitting in judgement of me and everyone else.Bullshido?????the idea behind it is reallllly cool and everybody there is kicking butt on their keyboards...in the internet pit.The sword?....we are back to the sword?it was obviously a wushu sword used for forms.Them things are very flexible.I think they are alluminum dude.Is that okay with you?The guy is doing a sword dance....not fighting any armed bandits around the shaolin temple.HAHAHAHA .I think he could probably use a real sword even if that one is a kind the whole wushu world uses.Give me a break....I give someone a little respect and I get jumped on.I am man enuff to admit that the Abir is legit.I dont want them to succeed or spread.I have seen it in person,not just by reading a website and seeing some video clips.I personally find them pretty good.I think that Abir is alot better than krav maga and it IS A RELIGIOUS martial art!Most martial arts seem to have a religion or philosophy behind them and those Abir people are Jews.There are Muslim fighting styles as well but dont get me started.take a pill and calm down .

jam,

Dude, I don't know if you are reading your own posts. And my assumption is that English is a secondary or even a tertiary language for you, so I won't jump down your throat for the disconnected, sincopated sentence structure...but yes, your comments are racsist.

And yes, there have been terrible things done to the Palestinians with the usurpation of their lands. But what we have here is a conversation about the martial arts and where the founder of this style came from. Without historical evidence, corroborated evidence...this guy, regardless of how good he is, is making this historical crap up and calling it something else.

Oh well.

-B

you see? bash awayyyyyyyyyy...you are all soooo kewl.I'm impressed with the western culture stuff.
mr imcrazy has taken the brave safety in numbers position.Bravo!

Deleted as Racist and off topic. These types of inflammatory comments will NOT be tolerated here. Follow the rules please.

jambiyeh,

Welcome to the forums. The style in question sets its roots deeply within a particular religious doctrine, this is the only reason that religious/political discussion is being humoured in the slightest on this thread, normaly these topics are 100% banned in the interest of keeping discussions on topic- being martial arts, and also to avoid offensive and or inflammatory views being put forward by any and all cultures represented on the forums.
Peoples criticism of this style in particular, is based on fraudulent claims of its heritage/history, made in an attempt to give it extra credibility in the competetive world of commercial martial arts. Such marketing leads to the term 'McDojo' a criticism that, when warranted gets highlighted in all cultures arts. There have been many such 'colourful' schools exposed on this site in times past, and they are brought to task purely on the accuracy and truth of what they claim to be, not on the culture that has spawned them.

We are martial artists, not political/social commentators, if you wish to interact in the spirit of the forums, and talk of your martial arts experiences, enjoyment, and knowledge then great. If you carry on with political/religious rants you will be banned from the forums. This would happen to any of us in these circumstances. I hope you choose to abide by the forum rules and hope to talk further on less heated topics, but the choice is yours.

Cord

Can we end this political/historical/religious debate before I start spewing a bunch of stuff about Greco-Roman influences in the East?

Cord,

Let me address your one-sided statement and again defend myself for defending what you call a mcDojo school
I quote you;

''Peoples criticism of this style in particular, is based on fraudulent claims of its heritage/history, made in an attempt to give it extra credibility in the competetive world of commercial martial arts. Such marketing leads to the term 'McDojo' a criticism that, when warranted gets highlighted in all cultures arts.''

What fraudulent claims have been made?Have you disproved the ''claims'' because you are either unaware of their truth and exsistence?Or because you don't believe them you claim them to be fraud?Do you think history is the way an american textbook portrays it?Do you need an oxford dictionary to varify the Abir's ''claims''.Are you aware that great wars were fought in this region in ancient times with martial arts?Are there not great feats of war in the bible among the regions kings and prophets/judges?
About marketing;
You are wrong about those peole this time.They have no online store and they dont teach outside their people.They don't want anyone to know their secrets or train with them.
I think their history is true.
So I used the ''J'' word and spoke of some Islamic history.That was to strengthen my point that I have no interest here but respect.I don't care what religion they are really.They have the right to have a religion.It is an ancient people with an ancient language and they have a fighting style.As an Arab(and maybe you don't like that I'm Arab or that I am proud to be Arab)I am defending them.I can't even believe it myself LOL!
Just because something is hard to believe doesnt make it untrue.The style is not kuksoolwon nor does it look like it.It is not TKD either.They fight on the ground if need be and their kicking /punching is very unique.Here I am an Arab defending the Jewish martial art and you people do the art bashing without using words like jew when your laughter and denial is totally anti-semitic.I feel this could fall on my people in the same manner.The history of martial arts in middle eastern history will surface.It is an awareness growing among scholars.Who says I'ma racsist for acknowledging that a people is a political and military enemy to my people.If I am a racsist I wouldnt defend them anyway.They are not marketing though so I know your are dead wrong there.I know the history from my father and grandfather and from great historical books that do confirm what the jew says on the website.He did not bash any other art nor did he forbid anyone to do what style they want.They only don't allow people outside of their religion to train Abir.Where is the Mc Dojo theory standing up to that?I mentioned religion in context just like you.Why do slam me for racsism when I am the only one defending the Abir style?Your sense of justice seems crooked and if you wish to ban me from being on this forum then let everyone see how corrupt and unfare you are.You know nothing about the art you are dissin or the region.
Do what you want!

I have neither the authority nor inclination to ban you, i was actually attempting to make clear to you repeated political and religious comments are banned for all cultures on this forum, and in contravening this simple rule you run the risk of warnings from the moderators, and from there being banned with further breaking of the rules.
I cant speak for others here, but i find your accusations of racism absolutely disgusting. I have friends of many colours and creeds, and my sister is married to a Jewish gentleman, and our family has no divisions.

You are not the first Arabic person to become a member on this forum, we have a worldwide membership, that is the reason for the no religion/politics rule, to ensure a friendly neutral ground to come together in the common denominator of Martial arts. Relax with the personal attacks,post in friendship, or not at all, its no different to being a guest at a party- I assume you dont arrive, hang your coat up, and then accuse everyone else there of being racist if you happen to have a disagreement during conversation?
We are real people, not sentence generating programms, would it hurt to try and guage the forum and its members a little more judisciously before throwing the insults.
Why waste them on the undeserving?

Peace,

Cord.

read up on how Abir® describes itself.
http://www.abirwarriorarts.com/definition_Abir.htm
(I like all of the 'rights reserved' symbols on the page, maybe he's also a Lawyer?)

New MA term
Jewdo - Martial fiction of the Mideast. From 'ancient Egyptian' Judo to now Hasidic Kung Fu.

Give me a break.

does Kintamo also get a warning for his egyptian judo ,''Jewdo'' and hasidic kung fu slander?LOL the lawyer bit is a gem and I suppose nobody registers a trade mark for what he values to protect it unauthorized use.What a silly thing to find fault with.One should look at the wall murals at Bani Hassan to see Judo/jujitsu and wrestling moves and throws.Why do you insist upon ignorance and why are people of middle eastern origin so threatening to your martial arts legend preconceptions?

Please re-read Cord's responses to you earlier. He said it very well. People here are responding to the rather outrageous claims on the Abir site. Humor is tolerated here, but hate is not. I assure you that hateful comments towards anyone, of ANY culture, will not be tolerated here whatsoever. We welcome your thoughts on the martial arts aspect of Abir, but refrain from political or religious comments.

The thing is that you have to be careful with terminology here. When it says it was handed down by the tribes of Israel it does not necessarily mean that it can be traced untainted back to those times. "The 12 Tribes of Israel" means the Jewish people. The modern state of Israel is seen as the reunion of the 12 tribes. Therefore the reference could just mean it was passed down through the Jewish community. Is this claim any more ridiculous that some TKD practitioners saying TKD is over 4000 years old?

Actually, on the FAQ's it makes no secret of the fact that it is a modern style, based on reconstruction. The thing it makes clear is that it is based within a Jewish history and culture. It doesn't say that Jews can't learn other arts. It says there are views by religious leaders that this is the case.

Now, this makes sense if you think how many arts ARE based in Asian philosophy. Deep study of Asian TMA may lead to conflict with religious views. However, if an art is based within Jewish beliefs and culture then it does not distract from a study of Jewish philosophy, it enhances it (as I see the theory).

Reconstructions are often criticesed for bolstering themselves with other arts but then this is a historical fact anyway. How many 'pure' arts are pure? I recall a discussion on a WMA site where people asked if the English MA writer and teacher had interpreted ancient manuscripts of English styles according to his own knowledge of Chinese MA. As for Greco-Roman wrestling... invented by a Frenchman who had seen Ancient Greek art and had a wierd idea that Greeks didn't use leg holds.

In the end, I can't learn this art cos I'm not Jewish it doesn't matter to me as I can't be ripped off if it is a 'McDojo". However, what I read seems open enough.

Gandalf the Grey belt: Wand-Waza magic
mms://abirwarriorarts.com/The%20Abir%20Roiim.wmv

looking at this purely as SD/martial arts, I'd say the uke is a tad over-compliant. I know, I know, I'm an ass and I'll be burning for eternity...
I don't think this is a mcdojo...far from it. it may be closer to a cult? just throwing ideas out there.

If that's the one with the old gentleman, then I think it is a bit of a homage to him, as his reactions look a little slow. Mind you, aren't most vids like that... too willing?

Just relating to the subject that you mention and disallow me,I dont think that people here can disclaim this PERSON of the Jewish religion's ''claims'' as being false or fraudulent just because you are not familiar with his history or dont believe him.I would like to say something there is fraudulent but to my understanding there is merit to that history because these facts are recorded by ancient historians (including Arabic historical sources) and archeological findings.The Abir family is from Hebron and from the Yemen and it is reasonable that they have preserved these customs.The sword dances of this nature are not unique to Abir but with a little difference are common among the Arabs.Some people online dont like martial art folklores or legends.They just think about kicking butt in a caged pit.The McDojo doesn't fly on the Abir because they have no desire to sell you anything as I stated.They are closed to the outside world.They got no belts and don't have tests students have to pay for as far as I know.kintamo's statements are far worse than those I said and I am the only one defending the style so why jump on me?

Jam -

No one here is jumping on you for defending the art. Well, OK, maybe a little.....

People are mostly "jumping on you" about your comments about how and on whom you might use your training. And also about some of the historical comments you have made which were very one-sided.

Your comments about the art itself are welcome. Let's just try to keep it to martial arts, and we'll get along just fine.

I appologize. I come across strong in sarcasm too often, when what I should be doing is sticking to criticizing my own art...because after all, what good does it do me to knock what others choose to do? yet at the same time, I'm comfortable being an ass in the name of humor - so that makes me a kind of clown...and I'm perfectly ok with that.

on the positive side of what I saw in some of the videos, particularly the routines...very fast body movements and the equilibrium was fantastic. As a martial dance it is very dynamic and expressive every bit as much as Capoeira.

Peace.

In fact, the steps in one dance looked like capoeira ginga.

Interesting the write up mentions Ukrainian Hassidic dances (sometimes similar to Dervish dancing) as Cossack dancing is obviously rooted in Cossack martial arts. There is even a dance where the dancers trip each other up like in purring.

The video here is of a very old man(about 90) who is blind.It's written in the photogallery section dedicated to him.I think I would like to just live that long and still stand up straight let alone be training.The ''attacker'' is the old guy's son so what does anyone expect???a bloodfest?It could verrrry well be that they are actually trying to show a technique and not going for a Jackie Chan type action stunt in ''real''time.Could I be right here guys?????

lol...you are right. it's a definite and unmistakable cheap-shot. but, when/if I'm ever that age, I'd rather create laughter than pity.

I think you deserve some pitty already just for your need to dish out the cheap shots.The old man is kool.

so is Gandalf.

YOU SHALL NOT PAAAARRRRRRSE!!!!!!!!!!!!

you are funny dude!!!who or what is a gandalf?????

Gandalf is a fictional wizard that features heavily in both The Hobbit and The Lord of The Rings by JRR Tolkein. He is very old, and very cool. my previous post is one of his more memorable lines as spoken by Sir Ian Mackellan in the film adaptation of 'The Fellowship of the Ring'

http://www.mckellen.com/events/vf/gandalf2.jpg

Sorry Raul, didn't see that.....I second your verdict.....Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwhhh.....and guys sorry to derail this thread with my late arrival, but this isn't the first time I've seen this style of fighting:

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/rup/bowstaffdemo.wmv

Star Wars Kid - Drunken Jedi Master
http://www.screamingpickle.com/members/StarWarsKid/video_nolinking/StarWarsKid-DJM_00.wmv

Yep, I've crashed this thread ain't I? Nice one oldman!

hahah
I'd like to dress him up in traditional Arab clothing!See I never went to those movies or read that stuff.I am getting a real education here thanks to the Abir.
My uncle is a cab driver as I stated.He drives their grandmaster home many times.The Abir is filmed for many shows here that deal with many subjects.Many Arabs like this guy and take pride that he is from Hebron(Al Khallil in arabic) and the Yemen.This confuses me a bit.I know that some Israili military use that stuff and they don't tell you that!I see that soo many people put his photos up all over the net.I can't figure it out really why people are soo interested in Abir or how they found their website.I met isailis who laughed at it when I asked them about it.When I took this one guy from wingchun I met...a guy with sifu credentials to their gym.I was sure he would kick ass up in there and HE FRIGGIN JOINED THEIR GYM!Well...he is a Jew afterall even he came from the states.They have really strange kicks.I never saw anything like it.They lock joints without using the hands to hold or twist.I can't figure it out and Im a little embarrassed to hang around their place.i am afraid that they will really be big one day.They look like they are having alot of fun.It's funny cause when you ask other instructors here about Abir or about Yehoshua Sofer they get murder on their face.hahaha.you just have to see it!!!!If I were a jew I think the first place I would want to train would be Abir.
I wish that there were Islamic martial arts here like those in India Malaysia and Indonesia.aaahhhhh maybe one day.Can we not talk about Abir anymore?????Can someone suggest a good muslim martial art website to me?