Two New Sparring Videos and some questions

Posted by: Eric4444

Two New Sparring Videos and some questions - 09/23/05 06:58 PM

Alright, I filmed 2 new sparring videos with my brother. This time there was some safety equipment involved so I could go a little faster and harder. The second video is kind of dark, and I have on black pants so it's a little hard to see, hopefully you can make the kicks out though. I really love posting these videos. I am always ready to improve, and everyone here is a big help. Watching the videos myself, I can even see some of my own mistakes, such as like someone pointed out, I sometimes drop my hands when I kick. So here are the two videos.

New Sparring Video 1

New Sparring Video 2

So, I'd like to know what everyone thinks. I would also like to hear from some other Tkd people, because I have been told by students from other Tkd schools that when they see people in our school spar it doesn't look like what they refer to "real tkd." Whatever that is.
I would also, of course, like to know what mistakes I'm making and what I need to improve on.
Something I'm really curious about is how this sparring compares to sparring in other arts, different forms of karate or kung fu.

Would it be a hard transition from Tkd to Kyokushin? As I've mentioned before, I'm moving to Tampa in the summer, and would like to do a Japanese or Okinawan art, I'm not even sure if there is a legitamate Kyokushin school in the area, but I would just like to know if the transition would be hard. And how would you say between these two videos, and the self defense videos that I am progressing? I will have been 4 years in the arts as of the beginning of January. Based on your experience, do I seem to be below average, average, or above for someone practicing for my amount of time?
Posted by: butterfly

Re: Two New Sparring Videos and some questions - 09/23/05 07:15 PM

Eric,

One...don't consider average...or other subjective terms. As long as you are progressing. Good.

As far as suggestions, I couldn't get your first video up. For the second vid, I would suggest a little more zing in the techniques (but I understand that you are doing this with your brother in your yard) and one big caution for sparring across styles: I saw both hands dropping a couple of times to block.

Bad for two reasons: 1) The first is that this sets up an opportunity for a head shot if you go for a low block with both arms; and 2) the blocking that I saw both you and your brother doing is using your hands...sort of palming the top of the kicking leg. If the kicks were harder, there is a real chance to break or injure your hand doing it this way.

As for Kyokushin. Different kicking delivery, low kicks, and no pads. The similarties and the slight differences will probably bug you between TKD and Kyokushin, rather than the techniques that are completely different. Especially the kicking, I think.

Also, Kyokushin sparring normally goes on (depends on the school)...meaning points are delivered only if you can get your opponent to react to the strike without stoppage in the bout.....a good, technical kick, for instance, that doesn't make the person turn, or falter, will not count as scoring.

You will also have to learn how to take good body shots without the padding and gloves. Depends upon your age and how any particular Kyokushin instructor teaches. But Kyokushin is a good style.

Good luck in your choices and in your training.

-B
Posted by: kenposan

Re: Two New Sparring Videos and some questions - 09/23/05 07:39 PM

First, you are one brave soul for submitting all of these videos for critique.

I only have one real comment, and that is for your brother.

KEEP YOUR HANDS UP!

He is pretty much handing you his head on a platter.
Posted by: GojuRyuboy13

Re: Two New Sparring Videos and some questions - 09/23/05 07:49 PM

Ya don't say average, because that doesn't matter. As long as you are learning and working hard it's all good. Besides to say that would be like comparing ones skill to anothers which is not good.

I will be real interested to see how you spar with some of the guys at your school. If you could video that and post it. It would than be a little easier understand, than with you backyard sparring with your bro.

yup, keep the hands up. I notice when you kick, IMO it has some problems with form. to much lifting the leg up with a slight tap. All kicks start from the lifting of the knee. And than good snap. Some RH's can be done with out the knee going up first but work on form always.
No offense but kicking like that is a sure opening for a takedown, or the defender to simply smash your foot with his knee. Maybe throw you off balance.

For the sake of your partner, try not to chase em so much. I have seen a lot of people do that, and more experianced MA's will use it agaisnt and you won't want to move in so much. Stepping forward is okay but if they get away than don't chase, instead of going forward and back you can work on side stepping as defense, that way you aren't running, but gaining an advantage.

The sparring I have seen in Kung Fu is when the put the wrists togethor and start moving, attacking, defending, joint lock attempts. BUt always keeping in contact, real close. It's rather difficult.

At my karate class when we spar, we'll hit each other some what fast but only hard enough to get your attention. Form is always worked on. If Sensei see's bad form it's pushups, and more Kihon practice.

Happy Training

oh ya your brother needs plenty of work too, especially with those hands.
Posted by: Eric4444

Re: Two New Sparring Videos and some questions - 09/23/05 07:59 PM

So how exactly should the kicking be done then? I'm slightly confused. I really wish I could join up with a better school now, but there are just so many bad schools in my area, the one I'm at now is the best withing about an hour and a half of my house. There are just so many things he doesn't teach us, there are also alot of things he doesnt correct or work on us with. But again, he's can only teach what he was taught. When I move to Tampa I would really love to find a traditional and legitamate Karate school, Kyokushin, or Goju.....well my real dream is a Daito Ryu school but I don't think ill have much luck with that. I'd also love to find a BJJ school to train at to work on groundwork. It would be a dream come true, it really would lol.
Posted by: butterfly

Re: Two New Sparring Videos and some questions - 09/23/05 08:09 PM

Eric,

It's not as easy as asking how something can or should be done, but what utility you want to get out of it.

As Kenpo and Goju intimated, hands up. But, you won't recognize the need for this if you don't train with head punches. Leg kicks are another thing to consider as far as stance and body movement is concerned.

You won't recognize the liabilities in certain techniques unless you allow other, outside influences, into your training. This also means being at an advanced enough state in your art to know when to keep some techniques and not just throw everything out.

Keep practicing...and there should be lots of different MA styles in Florida.

-B
Posted by: Kintama

Re: Two New Sparring Videos and some questions - 09/23/05 08:31 PM

in my humble opinion, forget the sparring for a while. work on kicks with focus pads and a bag. also, get some arm pads and let your bro kick as hard as he can right to your mid section (not off to the side) like he is really trying to hit you. with the arm pads, you can block without breaking anything. learn to block by *deflecting* the kicks, don't meet the kicks head on with your forearm.
You have to get the basics down so that you can spar with power and not worry about getting hurt or hurting the other person. protective gear is always a good idea until you really get safer blocking down cold.
also, don't forget about the principals in the SD techniques that you first showed....in those techniques, did you step back and then step in? no. you held your ground and stepped in. later, you won't even wait for the attack to finish...you should be able to step in before his attack is even finished...this is a very effective tactic in sparring- always throws people off.
tactics like:
he kicks, you step back.
he kicks, you step back.
he kicks again, and you step forward while guiding his kick off and counter even before his foot hits the ground.

just a few more things to think about...
Posted by: GojuRyuboy13

Re: Two New Sparring Videos and some questions - 09/23/05 09:12 PM

That's one thing that I really need to work on myself. Stepping in on the attack, deflecting, and countering. It's kinda tricky I think, takes lots of practice. I mainly have a problem with plain confidence in doing it. That's a bubble I need to break free from.

If your teacher doesn't explain stuff or isn't real technical, than ask. If he can't give a solid answer oh well.
Posted by: SANCHIN31

Re: Two New Sparring Videos and some questions - 09/23/05 09:57 PM

Eric,
Good job! Like others have said the only thing that matters is that you are progressing.
In my opinion you need to keep your hands up,even when your oppponent kicks.Work with your hands more,much less kicking.When I made the switch from TKD to karate I had a hard time with this,but the hands are much more effective to me.
Posted by: tookien1

Re: Two New Sparring Videos and some questions - 09/23/05 09:58 PM

I would take everyones advice here and keep your hands up at ALL times. Don't get into the habit of blocking too much with your hands, blocking with your hands is okay, but then your hands go down and you don't have full gaurd. Try to block the kicks with your legs instead. For example, if someone throws a side kick or a thai kick, lift the knee up in the direction the kick is coming at you, then that can set you up for a back hand strike or whatever techniques you prefer. You can also intercept the kicks, if someone kicks at you with lets say a front kick, you bend the leg very quicky with the knee pointed down, meanwhile at the same time step down so that the point of the knee goes into the kick, you can do this very quickly, and if done right you can even damage the leg. You can also intercept the kick, kick-the-kick, or not even block at all, just dodge. These are ofcourse things I recommend, only my opinion.

tookien1
Posted by: Eric4444

Re: Two New Sparring Videos and some questions - 09/23/05 10:20 PM

Thank you all for your advice so far its been very helpful. I try to use my hands more when I spar, its hard to get out of a kicking habit though. Plus, my instructor gets made when I do alot of punches, he thinks I should stick with the "traditional" Tkd way and do mostly kicks. When I'm sparring someone more on my level, I do alot more dodging. I was a little more on the aggressive side with my brother to show technique on the video. Normally I like to stay on the defensive, evading my opponent as much as possible. What I have been trying to do, as some people have said I should, is learn more to deflect my opponents attack, rather then block it straight on.
About blocking with my leg, its weird, but I always had it stuck in my head that that was dangerous, but now I really have no idea why, since I've seen it done in Muay Thai matches many times. I don't know, just weird, I never put two and two together lol. I would really like to film some things in class tomorrow, hopefully it will be allowed. I'll be sure to work on everything everyone said, thank you again.
Posted by: Foolsgold

Re: Two New Sparring Videos and some questions - 09/23/05 10:30 PM

Are you ITF or WTF?

If WTF (like myself), I would work on the speed of your kicks. Also, work on blocking with your forearms and nearer to your body. Later, you can work on mixing it up a bit.

Is Leo around?
Posted by: tookien1

Re: Two New Sparring Videos and some questions - 09/23/05 10:31 PM

"Plus, my instructor gets made when I do alot of punches, he thinks I should stick with the "traditional" Tkd way and do mostly kicks"

Wow, I can't believe your TKD instructor gets mad at you, that sure sucks. But remember were always talking about how its the MA'st not the MA'rt. Your the MA'st so when your in studio boundaries, do it the way your instructor tells you. Then, on your own or with your brother train the way you feel is right and as said previously, get outside ideas on methods of training. You'll never get enough because there is so much to learn.

tookien1
Posted by: Eric4444

Re: Two New Sparring Videos and some questions - 09/23/05 10:44 PM

Well, I would like to see how things work with less kickiing, and more dodging and deflecting. It is very unfortunate that he gets mad if someone doesnt kick enough, he even gets made if you dodge too much and dont block or attack. However, tomorrow, I'm going to try what feels right to me. Some of the stuff that people have suggested here to me, and some of the stuff that I've wanted to try. He may yell, but I think its worth it to find out what works for me against someone of a higher rank. Like I said before, my school isnt close to the best, but its the best within my driving range. They teach some good stuff, as you saw in the self defense videos, even though I need to add in my own stuff to make it realistic, but some of the stuff I don't like at all. For instance, I was sparring a higher rank the other night, and I grabbed his wrist, and punched him a few times in the ribs with my other hand. He didn't do anything, and I looked up, at this "higher rank" who is a 30 something year old, 6'4 giant, and he was just looking down at me, not doing anything as I held and punched him, he then shouted "He's holding me thats against the rules!" And my instructor yelled at me and made me do push ups.
I just need to work hard on my own, alot of weight lifting, cardio, bag work, etc, and just keep the one wonderful thought in my head.....9 months till Florida.
Posted by: hedkikr

Re: Two New Sparring Videos and some questions - 09/23/05 10:53 PM

Eric...

Normally I refrain from instructing on line & would tell you to consult your instructor but I'll offer this one bit of feedback:

Your kicks are just leg-lifting exercizes. When you kick, you just drop your legs, you never snap them back before letting your foot return to the ground.

This limits you to one kick per leg-lift - you'll never deliver a double kick or feint-kick/kick combination w/ your current technique.

Also, w/o snapping the foot back, your leg "hangs" in space longer allowing your opponent to ceize the leg & take you down.

You seem like a good kid, eager to learn & confident to display your skills so take it or leave it, there it is.



BTW: No offence but I'll bet you'd do better w/ another instructor.
Posted by: tookien1

Re: Two New Sparring Videos and some questions - 09/23/05 10:58 PM

Good thinking, above all don't get discouraged. And try not to go in the path that most of us have gone through -- the style is more effective vs. the other style krap. Your TKD has great usefullness, and you've learned a great deal not worth giving up.

tookien1
Posted by: butterfly

Re: Two New Sparring Videos and some questions - 09/23/05 11:09 PM

Eric,

When you were told not to grab, well these are "house" rules that you are playing in and will force you into the stylistic interpretations of how you normally spar and practice.

TKD is primarily kicking and, I think, most schools teach it this way. This means a more focused atmosphere for kicking and an environment disallowing those techniques that take away from this focus.

Sport is sport, but you have to wrap your head around what you are being taught and why. You chose this school and thus you have to understand the ramifications of this teaching. Other schools will teach in a different manner where grabbing, punching, and take downs occur. This then requires a different set of skills.

In any case, don't get down on yourself. It was nice of you to share your videos...and this means that you have to be willing to take these criticisms and hopefully learn from them.

Good luck in all your MA endeavors.
Posted by: MattJ

Re: Two New Sparring Videos and some questions - 09/24/05 09:00 AM

Eric -

Nice job with the videos. You were actually pretty good about keeping your hands up. Nice combos, and good use of your kicks to close the gap and set up your hands.

I agree with some of the other responders on a few points:

* I would work a bit more on retracting strikes quickly. In a clinch or grappling situation, you will get trapped if you leave your strikes hanging for too long.

* Get your brother to keep his hands up. He will get mauled if he doesn't protect his head.

Keep up the good work.
Posted by: Eric4444

Re: Two New Sparring Videos and some questions - 09/25/05 04:08 PM

I posted the videos on martial arts planet and someone said that I look like i bought some equipment off ebay, watcheds some kung fu movies and then tried to copy it, he said he's seen people at his dojang with 2 months of training who are much better.
Posted by: UofM Shorin Ryu

Re: Two New Sparring Videos and some questions - 09/25/05 04:44 PM

I wouldn't worry too much about jerks like that. Overall I've been training longer than you, but you are MUCH better than I ever was.
Speaking of, I met some TKD and WC guys last night at what was SUPPOSED to be breakdancing practice, but we ended up just sparring the whole time .

Now I haven't trained in anything in well over a year, but I sparred anyway just to see how much I remembered....and I got SERVED!

Everybody learns at a different rate, and everybody learns something differently. Some like audio, some prefer visuals, some prefer writing to learn (insert desired knowlegde). Besides, that guy's a jacka$$.

Keep training, and have fun.
Posted by: MattJ

Re: Two New Sparring Videos and some questions - 09/25/05 04:56 PM

Quote:

I posted the videos on martial arts planet and someone said that I look like i bought some equipment off ebay, watcheds some kung fu movies and then tried to copy it, he said he's seen people at his dojang with 2 months of training who are much better.




And how many videos has that dude put up of himself?

That guy is an ass. It's very easy to mouth off on the internet. I give you much respect for having the guts to put your videos up and take criticism. I bet that jackass has never put any of his stuff up for anyone to see.

Don't worry about internet mouth-boxers like that. Keep doing your thing and learning.
Posted by: Kintama

Re: Two New Sparring Videos and some questions - 09/25/05 05:16 PM

he did come off a bit strong...but in the beginning of the thread you didn't mention it was you and your bro...so the guy didn't know he was going to offend you. you only asked opinion of the video and didn't present it the same way you presented it here. just trying to be fair.
http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40213
Posted by: Eric4444

Re: Two New Sparring Videos and some questions - 09/25/05 05:28 PM

I figured if I didn't say it was me, they would be even more critical and honest, oh well I guess I got what I wanted. Oh well, now I just need to train twice as hard!
Posted by: JasonM

Re: Two New Sparring Videos and some questions - 09/25/05 07:16 PM

DAMNIT..Once again, I have to agree with Kintama on his post..Damn you...lol

Posted by: kenposan

Re: Two New Sparring Videos and some questions - 09/25/05 08:35 PM

Quote:

I posted the videos on martial arts planet




Oh yea, MA Planet. I was a member there for about a month before I gave up. Just not the same quality as here IMO.
Posted by: MattJ

Re: Two New Sparring Videos and some questions - 09/25/05 08:58 PM

Having read that MAplanet thread, I agree with Kin that the guy probably would not have been that harsh had he known he was addressing Eric.

His comments were pretty harsh, though. To say that there appeared to be no "traditional arts" on display was overdoing it a bit. I have seen other 4 year students with less skill.

Although, Eric - next time, own up from the beginning.
Posted by: Eric4444

Re: Two New Sparring Videos and some questions - 09/25/05 09:10 PM

I know, I just figured if someone didn't know it was me, they would be more harsh, I guess I got what I wanted, I just didn't expect it to be that....harsh lol. This has all been good though. Martial arts are about improving your mind, body, and spirit. Posting these videos are helping me do so. These criticisms, and being able to hear what people outside my small dojang think, have really opened my eyes, and helped me to want to train 10 times as hard to be improve myself and reach a higher level. Lately I've been reading alot more, studying the mental parts of martial arts, and the philosophy behind it, trying my best to understand and take in as much as I can. I've also started going to class 4 times a week, and working out twice as much and twice as hard as home. Hopefully one day, I can reach the spiritual and physical level that I strive for, and eventually pass on all that I've learned to my own students. It's going to be a long road, and now I know that I'm even farther from where I thought I was, however everyones comments have helped me to walk a little faster I think.
Thank you all.
Posted by: Kintama

Re: Two New Sparring Videos and some questions - 09/25/05 09:24 PM

last bit of advice...don't burn yourself out of MA. force yourself to do unrelated stuff...read a book on a completely different subject. spend time with people you care about and don't be thinking of a technique you are working on...live in the moment and enjoy.

corney stuff. but true.
Posted by: AshiharaStudent

Re: Two New Sparring Videos and some questions - 09/26/05 09:40 AM

Quote:

That's one thing that I really need to work on myself. Stepping in on the attack, deflecting, and countering. It's kinda tricky I think, takes lots of practice. I mainly have a problem with plain confidence in doing it. That's a bubble I need to break free from.

If your teacher doesn't explain stuff or isn't real technical, than ask. If he can't give a solid answer oh well.




I must admit I find that hard as well... the natural reaction when someone is going to strike you is to move back, not forward.

1stly... well done on the videos, and you have given me the idea to film some of my training too, cause as you said, you can see things yourself that you didn't know you do.

2ndly... I'm not sure whether it is a TKD thing or not, but I would be going for a lot more low kicks. Although your brother leaves his hands down and leaves you a meal ticket by not protecting his head, also watch for a wide stance. If you go for his front inner thigh with an oucho-momo (Havent a clue how you spell it) then he won't beable to retalliate very well.

once again.... love the videos