CIA & Navy Seal CQC tactics....

Posted by: Carbone

CIA & Navy Seal CQC tactics.... - 07/07/05 12:17 AM

I realize it seems a lot of the CQC (Close-Quarters-Combat) or hand tactics taught to the Navy Seals, CIA, FBI etc... can be similiar to Aikido and Judo combined with some modern twists....

Although they are different, does anyone know anything about what they might teach in these Combat classes to Navy Seals, FBI or CIA members??? I'd like to know what is incorporated into it and more about it.

Im interested because I almost joined a boot camp this summer and I guess they're teaching a watered down version of it. Seems like something I'd like to get involved in.

Thanks guys....
Posted by: Carbone

Re: CIA & Navy Seal CQC tactics.... - 07/07/05 12:30 AM

Oh guys at

>>> http://cqctactics.com/pages/Home.aspx <<<

you can check it out, let me know if it seems worth investing into the DVDs etc...

Thanks again...
Posted by: Fletch1

Re: CIA & Navy Seal CQC tactics.... - 07/07/05 01:05 AM

All of the hype you read and hear about military programs is just that, hype. Military units have $$$ available to bring in contracted instructors from outside to fill any particular void they perceive at the time.
Posted by: Cord

Re: CIA & Navy Seal CQC tactics.... - 07/07/05 02:21 AM

If your perception of military CQC has been at all influenced by Metal Gear solid 3 and/or the film 'The Hunted' with tommy Lee Jones, and you like the idea of the sneaky lock/punch/counter/disarm all up close and personal stuff contained within these sources; look into filipino Martial arts (kali, arnis, silat) as that is the root of the inspiration behind the concepts on the screen.
Quite frankly thats how I got into kali/escrima and its just like the movies- except I'm rubbish and would be killed in the first scene
Posted by: Ubermint

Re: CIA & Navy Seal CQC tactics.... - 07/07/05 03:00 AM

Wow...oh wow. That site reads like a TSR ad in the back of blackbelt. Lots of KILL A MAN IN A NANOSECOND stuff.

The people who market these kinds of materials prey on the fear, paranoia and sadness of others. They show an exxagerated image of working class violence (itself a syndrome of things deeply wrong in a society) then offer their own quick-fix scheme as the cure.

It's snake oil. Avoid like the plague. Go to a boxing gym instead.
Posted by: laf7773

Re: CIA & Navy Seal CQC tactics.... - 07/07/05 03:04 AM

Haven't we beaten this horse enough? The training the SEALs get would equate to about 2 months at your local gym teaching muay thai and BJJ, if you’re lucky. The FBI is about the same as any other law enforcement group as far as H2H. As for the other group, i'm sworn to secrecy.
Posted by: JKogas

Re: CIA & Navy Seal CQC tactics.... - 07/07/05 07:29 AM

The SEALs fight with guns. That's always going to be their preferrence. A former SEAL told me once that if you're having to fight empty handed, that means you're in some DEEP SH*T (because somehow you're without a weapon and, your enemy likely won't be empty handed)

Otherwise it's like Fletch said, they bring in whoever, whenever. All in all, empty hand isn't really their focus.


-John
Posted by: Carbone

Re: CIA & Navy Seal CQC tactics.... - 07/07/05 01:02 PM

Thanks guys....

Yeh I was afraid you'd say that. I didn't agree with the 6 month = master level program going 2x a week. It's like $7,800 in NY to take lessons which is kind of ridiculous for 6 months.

Thanks Cord, yeh that kind of was the CQC I was taking about in Metal Gear Solid 3 and that movie etc.... I'll definetely look into some Filipino arts you named there (my dad took Kyokoshinkai or however you spell it, I'm wondering if that's a filipino art which is also similiar to what I'm looking for).

Thanks guys....
Posted by: Crash

Re: CIA & Navy Seal CQC tactics.... - 07/07/05 01:07 PM

A military hand-to-hand combat course is just that: a course. One course which they teach you how to fight with your basic motor skills. This is topic comes up once in awhile because people think "If it's good enough for the elite military it must be good enough for me" But remember they are just taught a "course" and it can't compare to a lifetime of training in a dojo.
Posted by: watts75963

Re: CIA & Navy Seal CQC tactics.... - 07/07/05 08:36 PM

Quote:

If your perception of military CQC has been at all influenced by Metal Gear solid 3 and/or the film 'The Hunted' with tommy Lee Jones, and you like the idea of the sneaky lock/punch/counter/disarm all up close and personal stuff contained within these sources; look into filipino Martial arts (kali, arnis, silat) as that is the root of the inspiration behind the concepts on the screen.
Quite frankly thats how I got into kali/escrima and its just like the movies- except I'm rubbish and would be killed in the first scene

kali/escrima is amazing i have been doing it for about 4-5 months now so im not exactly good, but i am getting there, i have orderd myself some sticks so i can practice in the garden... and scare the nabours i am taught by a guy called paul hes is amazing and he is married to a philipino girl, unfortunatly because she does not have anational insurance number she cant live over here just yet, and she can only vitet here for a few months at a time, so every few months i love my teacher which is anoying, but i get to train with him twice a week, how long have you been doing this art?
Posted by: Carbone

Re: CIA & Navy Seal CQC tactics.... - 07/07/05 11:41 PM

Just help me out guys, how would kali/escrima help if it is all stick fighting??? I looked into it and this is all I came up with.

If there is unarmed combat involved then I'll need to be informed a little mroe about it because I didn't that at all from it.

Just beat MGS 3 by the way great game, The stuff Snake uses was CIA stuff so yeh that's what I'm looking for. Pretty impressive and if I could learn anything to make me like that I'd be pretty satisfied.
Posted by: watts75963

Re: CIA & Navy Seal CQC tactics.... - 07/08/05 08:26 AM

its not all with sticks, they teach you do to the same when you are un armed, weather you oppenent has a weapon or not, the way you block/parry a stick is very similar to the way you block/parry a punch, the strikes are very similar weather you have a weapon or not, there are alot of traps (tieing up your opponent so its harder for them to atack) these are very helpfull when it is street fighting... anything else you want to know?
Posted by: Fletch1

Re: CIA & Navy Seal CQC tactics.... - 07/08/05 11:36 AM

Quote:



Just beat MGS 3 by the way great game, The stuff Snake uses was CIA stuff so yeh that's what I'm looking for. Pretty impressive and if I could learn anything to make me like that I'd be pretty satisfied.



You are kidding right? You are looking for real training that you saw represented in a video game? Oh brother.
Posted by: BigRod

Re: CIA & Navy Seal CQC tactics.... - 07/08/05 07:50 PM

Quote:

if you're having to fight empty handed, that means you're in some DEEP SH*T (because somehow you're without a weapon and, your enemy likely won't be empty handed)



This is honestly the most brilliant statement I've read on this forum. Martial artists focus waaay to much on empty handed combat (including me). Empty hands is cool for competition, bar fights and the school yard, but when the ish hits the fan and you're defending your life, you need to have a weapon, because you can rest assured your robber, rapist, serial killer etc, will.
Posted by: Carbone

Re: CIA & Navy Seal CQC tactics.... - 07/08/05 10:49 PM

Fletch: Actually yeh, I'd like to learn a lot of the stuff portrayed in a video game. It is just a reference to a real form of fighting which does exist.

I didn't get the motivation to use it during the game, but it is a good example which both he and I can refer to. The moves in there were not just developed by a game designer.

Actual martial artists put the moves and choreography in it to resemble a realistic and real situation.

Watts: I really don't have any more questions. Seems very interesting and I'll be sure to look further into it.

There's nothing like that around here so I'll have to work with what I got.
Posted by: Fletch1

Re: CIA & Navy Seal CQC tactics.... - 07/09/05 05:44 AM

And who said this was a program used by the CIA? Or is that beside the point? Do you want to learn it because it looks cool or because you THINK the CIA uses it?
Posted by: RangerG

Re: CIA & Navy Seal CQC tactics.... - 07/09/05 09:06 AM

I will add a comment to Cords post. The knife methods in the "Hunted" are almost impossible with the knife used in the movie. The movie consultant Tom Brown was my survival instructor, and the knife is a copy of the three original prototypes. Tom, Dave Beck (my friend) the first producer of the knife, and myself have the first three prototypes. I will bring it along when I meet up with MattJ and Razorfoot. It is not balanced well for fighting or throwing, but great for survival..trust me on that. A good Tanto serves as a better fighting knife IMHO.

Sorry for the hijack..
Posted by: Cord

Re: CIA & Navy Seal CQC tactics.... - 07/09/05 11:43 AM

I agree with Ranger on this, being a student of Kali and the proud owner of a Topps production Tom Brown Tracker, the two would not make a happy marriage. It is a superb bit of kit, but very heavy and not designed for violence at all.
if i had a choice, my tactical tanto, or my Ka-bar TDI Law Enforcement 'kerambit' style knife would be far superior in this capacity.